Jessie Sams: Welcome to link time chat.
Jessie Sams: and David doing things.
Jessie Sams: Like waving his hands around for all who cannot see him I was doing that for their benefit, and when I say their benefit, I mean the listeners.
Jessie Sams: Obviously, because I think they could probably hear the disturbance of air as you were waving your hands, they could you want to know something amazing that I just learned about.
Jessie Sams: There is a camera that is so sensitive that it can capture the vibrations in an in like you know, a video so that it can actually reproduce the sound.
Jessie Sams: That would be horrible for our current sound environment, I feel like because one okay we've got instruments hanging behind us, so if you've never seen the video she may not realize this, you can hear them oh.
Jessie Sams: Erica go, so they would actually show it so imagine, though, if that got magnified through this this sort of camera also I have found that we are close enough to the pool in our complex that.
Jessie Sams: You can hear kids screaming in the background yeah or adults, I don't know who's doing the screaming there's a lot of screaming sounds like kids, but if you could imagine, like all those disturbances being magnified I feel like.
Jessie Sams: It would be very distracting yeah, can you imagine though a photograph of a trumpet player from like years past and they can produce the sound he's making.
Jessie Sams: That would just be crazy that would be bizarre anyway welcome today's topic was actually one that was inspired by our work outside of link time.
Jessie Sams: Because we had a line for something that we were translating and the verb in English, was to have.
Jessie Sams: But it didn't make any sense for the language we were working with to use that same verb.
Jessie Sams: It also didn't make sense and the overall structure of the sentence, you know, like when you start semantically breaking it down thinking well why in the world is English even us have in this particular way.
Jessie Sams: And so we decided to focus today on sort of a deep dive into translation strategies for specifically for a semantically bleached verb in your own language.
Jessie Sams: And so we're going to look at to have today and we each had an assignment had an assignment and speaking of to have yeah and where we were supposed to come up with a list of ways that we use have an English.
Jessie Sams: That probably wouldn't necessarily be translated the same way.
Jessie Sams: and other languages, your, and so I don't know if you did didn't bring anything have related to the table, other than my copy of the world let's kind of grammatical ization she notes the superior when I brought my cellular telephone.
Jessie Sams: Do you to know that on phone now you learn telephone on phones they have this kind of digital paper imagine imagine a note that you write just on a notepad, but it could be on your telephone.
Jessie Sams: That is just too bizarre for me to consider it's like this camera with vibrations that you're trying to talk about yeah i'm so also used to have like twice in that sentence and so that was fun oh how by indeed.
Jessie Sams: So actually and I don't even think we're going to touch on using have for grammatical purposes, like supporting as an auxiliary for it wasn't the intent, but I can actually explain how we got it.
Jessie Sams: Oh go for it but but we'll get there, one thing that reason, I wanted to bring this down as the world lexicon of grammatical ization is that there's an entire section on this.
Jessie Sams: Because it's called I believe he possession.
Jessie Sams: And this is alpha ties right.
Jessie Sams: From the top for the yeah see source have C H possession, yes, and do you think that a hyphen comes before everything.
Jessie Sams: Every tentatively it doesn't wait it's very well, it became a possessive right, I mean it's showing all the sources to target so yeah look up the upended you're right, I need to look up maybe you need to reread that tutorial I created on patreon for how to use the world but.
Jessie Sams: Maybe have a little write up you know for each possession in general that's what I wanted.
Jessie Sams: He is now looking in the index, I believe that it's all under possessive, though, and then I think it breaks it down into it's a something and then age.
Jessie Sams: I think yeah okay be possessive and H possessive Erica and a possessive.
Jessie Sams: don't know what to be possessive is well today is something we can talk about on.
Jessie Sams: Other days unless know you're going to go there and I am going to go they're going to go back.
Jessie Sams: To.
Jessie Sams: What I just want, I just want to look real quick it's always super fun on podcasts when the people doing the podcast take a break, to read a book oh belong to belong possessive.
Jessie Sams: Okay, so let's get back to age possessive is this where we got our grammatical ization of to have.
Jessie Sams: So this is actually how we got the the the.
Jessie Sams: The the one for to have so.
Jessie Sams: All right, I want you to imagine for a moment, go back in time and imagine this okay new we're a language, English, that has only really two verb forms.
Jessie Sams: Past in a non past and so like I bind to a book I bound a book all right now, imagine that we already have this verb have which we did the H possession have so you could say, I have a book, I had a book, just like you could in Latin.
Jessie Sams: And then imagine this language also has participants, and so you could say I bound a book, but you could also say that there is a bound book a bound book is on the table.
Jessie Sams: All right.
Jessie Sams: Now you can combine these and say that you have a bound book all right.
Jessie Sams: Now, though, there is another way thing that you could do here.
Jessie Sams: I have a book.
Jessie Sams: In a State, so, in other words it's kind of like I paint the wall red right, you can have a red wall, but you can also paint a wall red.
Jessie Sams: And so you can bind a book, but you can also have a book bound alright so suddenly you have this expression, I have a book bound and there was a reinterpretation.
Jessie Sams: As a side now i'm very suddenly now realizing why Chairman verbs are at the end when the parts that are not participle but the auxiliary in its place so.
Jessie Sams: That is exactly how that happened and exactly how that analyzed as the the quote main verb of the sentence yeah and then an English.
Jessie Sams: They were like that's so weird that we have this verb here, and this verb at the end, why don't we just put the verbs together and suddenly you get I have found a book.
Jessie Sams: meeting was there ever a stage in English and really I should know this more than you but i'm asking anyway, if there is a stage where the same thing happened with the.
Jessie Sams: Present participle kind of version, where it was like I am a book writing I have absolutely no idea, and so I don't either.
Jessie Sams: And I don't think so, I think that actually came from a completely different set of circumstances, but that is an interesting little i've actually been very curious about that present participle because I wonder how far back you're supposed to go.
Jessie Sams: Where that wasn't just the normal way to do the present tense.
Jessie Sams: Because it's like if he started thinking about is like in the 1800s like not know pretty much they they did use B plus axing for the present tense in the 1800s and it's like well how far back, do you have to go before it is the usual way to say what do you I eat.
Jessie Sams: I used to know this.
Jessie Sams: But I honestly can't be on knowing that in middle English is when it became more more codified, and so it became a more set way of doing it.
Jessie Sams: But there was definitely early middle English you still saw the.
Jessie Sams: I eat know.
Jessie Sams: Some Q something or he something you know, like you still see those kinds of patterns.
Jessie Sams: But it was that transition, which is why, like there's there's a lot of theories about why it came about and, like some people have even said it was partially from the old English.
Jessie Sams: The Anglo Saxon interaction with the Celtic language speakers, because there is a similar construction and Celtic languages that that they thought might have affected.
Jessie Sams: But that's also just a theory there's no clear reason but definitely old English you're going to see that just straight up present tense be be used.
Jessie Sams: it's really as it gets into middle English stages, where you start to see it become a set pattern across.
Jessie Sams: Not just certain dialects but eventually across all dialects of English so somewhere between chaucer and Shakespeare basically yeah and I need to look at chaucer again to see if chaucer even.
Jessie Sams: uses that simple present tense as much as we.
Jessie Sams: may have died, I honestly haven't one.
Jessie Sams: shoulder sota the draft on march 8 person to the role turns on exactly.
Jessie Sams: But i'm going to say because yeah yeah the the Th, which was the the present tense without having the to be blinking so.
Jessie Sams: So yeah between chaucer Shakespeare would be a good time dream if you're interested in that particular phenomenon cool, but that has nothing to do with to have.
Jessie Sams: The initial one did and that's super interesting because that made a light bulb moment go off for me with German, I never questioned why it happened, I didn't question why all the English had similar structures as well.
Jessie Sams: And that is super fascinating alright so let's talk about to have those so some of the first examples that came to mind were really obvious ones right.
Jessie Sams: The ones where it's like well it's obviously an idiom that have is used as the verb for and so.
Jessie Sams: It feels more in your face that you would have to do something different, with it, when you translate so some of the more in your face examples that I came up with Okay, excuse me while I move that window over.
Jessie Sams: So I have like a summer more obvious list like to have a cow right don't have a cow man Oh, I see let's start with the second one, to have a fit.
Jessie Sams: Yes, something I never do because you never do when you know you're translating things you never have a fan.
Jessie Sams: I think that this this to have a fit it's kind of like it was one of the starting points for a broad metaphorical extension that.
Jessie Sams: That works for a ton of stuff so it covers a ton of stuff So if you start with to have a book right where it's a very literal thing that you can actually see.
Jessie Sams: And then you talk about well okay your third one actually has a different meaning but I mean literally to have like an organ inside of you to have a stomach to have a liver.
Jessie Sams: To have a brain right that's a different type of thing because you can't see it, but you know there's possession there.
Jessie Sams: When it comes to medical conditions, though it's it's kind of a Gray area, so we have to have a fit in the oldest sense, you know.
Jessie Sams: Now it means to get mad but older, to have a fit meant something like a sickness.
Jessie Sams: And then you could also have like a coughing fit, yes, and then you can have a headache a heart attack and things like that.
Jessie Sams: And so that was, I think one of the first extensions right some sort of a medical episode it's something that's happening to you, but it's in your body.
Jessie Sams: And so you can't see it you can't see it, but you can kind of have it the same way that you have the organs that are inside of your body right, and so, if you'll accept that, then it wasn't too far to go to say something like to have a headache.
Jessie Sams: To have the vapors to have a fit to have a heart attack.
Jessie Sams: So I think that was one of the first branch offs and so suddenly it was like now, you can have these things that are very real that you can see, but.
Jessie Sams: That you can see the effects that but you can't see the actual things so off the top of my head thinking about these kind of medical extensions and we can we can get to you mentioned the third one on my list we'll get to that in a minute.
Jessie Sams: But other ways I can think about semantically talking about, that is, you don't have a heart attack you experience, one where you.
Jessie Sams: walk through one or you sit in a heart attack or you like these are all different verbs I could imagine being metaphorically extended in the same kind of situation.
Jessie Sams: Without actually using to have and, in fact, if you want to look at a language, where you don't use have for this, the most common thing is to have a very.
Jessie Sams: Basic verb that means to suffer, and I think one of the reasons that we shy away from that in English is that.
Jessie Sams: Since we had have and it's so useful music in so many ways we didn't really have to use suffer and so then suffer underwent to generation essentially.
Jessie Sams: Because they usually just mean so like to feel or to endure it right, but suffer now has a very negative connotation.
Jessie Sams: suffer, though, that came from Latin, so we had to have an older oh yeah ticklish word that i'm trying to think of what it is, I should know this.
Jessie Sams: My brain is is rotting in the summer months, this is sometimes where Adam online or which scenario is useful, because sometimes they will tell you like this word supplanted this older edge word.
Jessie Sams: But with that, though, there can be languages that have words that means something like suffer that has a much more neutral interpretation that's kind of like undergo yeah.
Jessie Sams: And so, when you talk about things like fits or heart attacks or you just use this verb and.
Jessie Sams: that's totally you it is totally me and it doesn't mean anything like it doesn't mean anything bad necessarily just by itself, whereas suffer on its own is very negative connotation.
Jessie Sams: So that's something that, as an English speaking con linger that you have to kind of like.
Jessie Sams: You know, remove from your mind that sephora necessarily has to have a negative connotation to it because that'll take care of a lot of these yeah.
Jessie Sams: Do we need to pause for a second did you need to grab that phone call no i'm okay Okay, because we can pause and come back, but yeah okay so.
Jessie Sams: Another thing, so you had mentioned the internal organs, and again I could think of some different strategies, including just having to reward the entire thing like a heart lies within me you're.
Jessie Sams: A brain is inside, you know, like some sort of like copula or state of verb that indicates that it, it is just there, rather than saying, like, I have a brain or I have a stomach you could come up with different strategies that way.
Jessie Sams: Now, one of these relates to my third idiom that I had on the list, because you can have a heart obviously this organ beating inside your chest, but you can also use that metaphorically, to talk about somebody who is kind or good and say Oh, they have a heart.
Jessie Sams: Or you could even like make it like they have a good heart, they have a kind heart, they have a soft heart, they have you know, like all these different types of hearts that we can metaphorically possess or the negative that to not have a heart, which I think is.
Jessie Sams: I don't even I mean it's hard to guess where it came from, but it's like the idea is.
Jessie Sams: If you don't have a heart, then you don't have the positive aspects associated with having a heart right then that's the extension like I don't think if you ever said to me Oh, that person has a bad heart.
Jessie Sams: I feel like my first interpretation of that would always be with oh like heart attack or heart, you know something going on medically I could, if with enough context get the metaphorical reading of like oh bad hard as and not a good person or whatever.
Jessie Sams: But, like my very first thing if I if I hear you say Oh, they have a good heart, I feel like i'm going to go metaphorical, but if you say they have a bad heart i'm going to go medical.
Jessie Sams: Even though a good heart could be descriptive of a very healthy.
Jessie Sams: Well pumping Oregon I don't know like that's that's sort of interesting that I would very instinctively take those different ways if I just heard them, given all the cholesterol I pushed through it, I have to think my heart is pretty good like it can endure a lot.
Jessie Sams: Indeed.
Jessie Sams: straw for not giving up yet yeah.
Jessie Sams: Yes, yes, so anyway, that that is another thing and with some of these idioms like like to have a heart that are so entrenched in how you use them.
Jessie Sams: It can be really difficult to realize that what you're saying is actually something that another language would not only restructure but use completely different words.
Jessie Sams: In the restructuring yeah so you have to like dig behind it and say, well, what are you actually saying.
Jessie Sams: When you tell someone have a heart or you know something like that, what do you actually telling them and so doing that I think is one of the more difficult parts of translating but it's also, I think one of the fun parts, where you have to completely reformulate the entire thing.
Jessie Sams: To make it work in that language yeah.
Jessie Sams: And I just say difficult, because then you can't use the concepts you can't just be like Oh, I have a word for hard, I have a word for half.
Jessie Sams: You can't use any of that information and so that's what makes it more difficult, but it's also, I think.
Jessie Sams: super fun to be like, how would these speakers, you know, think of being a quote good person or kind person and how would they.
Jessie Sams: You know Compare that to something else it's very rewarding when you come up with something that is that works very well and and it's quite clever and you're very proud of, I mean honestly, those are the moments I live for calling yeah.
Jessie Sams: And it's also especially fun when when somebody else comes up with it and it's just like wow I didn't even have to do anything.
Jessie Sams: Okay, but it's like it's also super fun when you come up with something that you're happy about and and the person you're working with it's like oh my God that's brilliant and.
Jessie Sams: it's really good it's a great feeling, so all around a lot with justin.
Jessie Sams: minute blush.
Jessie Sams: And so.
Jessie Sams: yeah big grumpily stomach so if the camera where we're really getting all the vibrations, I think the whole photo would be shaking at this point I couldn't hear it.
Jessie Sams: We we call my my stomach my little Jesse because it's very talkative sometimes can I add just something you keep talking Okay, so I also.
Jessie Sams: Right, so do we want to continue with body parts, since you just jumped to the list, where there's another body part that means something else.
Jessie Sams: Or do you want to go on to because another big area is sort of TIM poorly related hmm well let's do this one, first because it's kind of fun, the one I just did something with Ray so I was my original was to say like to have your back to someone.
Jessie Sams: Whereas David just put the to me or to someone in parentheses, and to have someone's back it is yeah that's obviously different that's obviously very metaphorical and to have somebody back to you, it could be metaphorical, but it also going to be very.
Jessie Sams: Very standard well what I mean by that is not.
Jessie Sams: It is metaphorical, of course, in the conceptual sense.
Jessie Sams: But it's it's more about blocking and other words like you just say Oh, that person has their back to me right now the same way, you could say that person has their front to me, I mean less common but it's still possible and it's simply referring to spatial location.
Jessie Sams: And yeah that is a strange strange turn of expression, it really is this person is standing like you know with their back facing me with their back toward me or whatever, but it's like now, they have their back to me.
Jessie Sams: it's yeah it's a very hard time honestly.
Jessie Sams: One of the reasons I put it on the list, but it's also further down on on that part of the list.
Jessie Sams: which by the way, I have this is really all part of the more what I call more obvious that there's something going on part of my list.
Jessie Sams: We haven't even started thinking about the what I considered the less obvious ones, which I think can be super tricky.
Jessie Sams: When you're translating because you don't even realize that it's not necessarily the way other people would do that but anyway getting back to like to have someone's back.
Jessie Sams: that's like to have a heart, where you're going to have to really recreate the entire meaning thinking about you know what does it actually mean, and so you know, an English to have someone's back means you support them you're behind them you're.
Jessie Sams: yeah it's also a strange use of help, though isn't it, it really is like.
Jessie Sams: it's not even just like with the you know you don't even have to use have you can say i've got your back yeah right it's slightly different but.
Jessie Sams: Yes, that's a strange thing well in what's intro okay Okay, speaking of switching over to God mm hmm you can just do a very simplified I got you right like that means like I have your back essentially i've got I got you or I have got you.
Jessie Sams: But if I say I have you.
Jessie Sams: totally different meaning for me yeah or like if you have someone that that to me indicates something very different it's really interesting too, because you can't say i'm on your back that means something different.
Jessie Sams: yeah However, you could you do use that with like you know.
Jessie Sams: We call it, you know planes and stuff so it's like you know i'm on i'm on a six i'm on your sex and so on.
Jessie Sams: And that i'm on your tail yeah i'm on your tail.
Jessie Sams: On your sale, and I have your tail can you say I have your town now I guess not it was just tricking that's.
Jessie Sams: Not unless i'm talking to a cat and i'm literally holding their tail and i'm like I have your tail said that many Joe or if it's a Halloween costume and it's like i'm holding up the tail to your costume yeah for your persona then.
Jessie Sams: went there, and I mean.
Jessie Sams: That that harkens back to our last patron live stream where David went weird at one point and and so, but I could have more doesn't sound like me.
Jessie Sams: So, with the to have your back to somebody there is a there is a lot of.
Jessie Sams: constructions in English, where you have the the verb thing and then the how use a preposition or phrase to say how it affects you so something else you could say it's like you know I had my card die on me yeah.
Jessie Sams: And then that uses have it doesn't need to because you also say my car died on me but.
Jessie Sams: I think if you say I had my car died on me it's more puts you more in focus, or like it puts you more.
Jessie Sams: In it, and it's more like an experience and so it's a bigger deal vs my car died on me it's like yeah that sucks.
Jessie Sams: But like I have my car died on me yeah you're exactly right it puts it, like our focus is on you experiencing it, so I guess what they have does they're essentially brings it closer to you.
Jessie Sams: It really does that's what it feels like huh so some sort of emphatic strategy yeah but speaking of also body parts to have someone by the throat.
Jessie Sams: is again could be literal but usually, when you use it it's metaphorical for like the exact opposite of having your back it's now i'm in control and I have something on somebody else.
Jessie Sams: In fact that's actually a weird kind of construction in itself move.
Jessie Sams: Talking less metaphorical and more literal because you can have somebody by almost anything and mean it literally many of those have been extended, but like you'd say you know I had them by the rest, you know it's same as I held him by the rest, but man just say, have.
Jessie Sams: Which is a strange thing, I think, because you're saying the first part, I have him which doesn't resolve, I think.
Jessie Sams: Like if there's no clear, meaning that comes to mind, and so, then you add the propositional phrase which helps to define it, which to me was always a weird thing it happens, also in Spanish, if you say something like you know.
Jessie Sams: Love is that a man knows which is wash your hands, but what it literally is is wash yourself the hands.
Jessie Sams: Which is something that I also found very strange, and this is that same type of thing so it's like this, the same day job by the hair yeah German does something similar where it's.
Jessie Sams: Like to wash or to clean.
Jessie Sams: something and then it's like you have to say, like MIA, which is, to me, you know the teeth, or whatever, and so it's like you, you do, that same kind of situation where you don't say.
Jessie Sams: My teeth, like you, don't say like i'm brushing my teeth you say like I brush to me the teeth and it's really weird because in English in Spanish and in German.
Jessie Sams: You we have these possessive adjectives right, we can say my teeth in English, Spanish and German there's nothing wrong with it, but in these constructions we.
Jessie Sams: issue it, for whatever reason mm hmm it's really it is really interesting and I don't like it, by the way, because then I feel like I have to do it in these languages that we create and it's like it never makes sense to me I don't like it, but it's like well, I have to do it sometimes.
Jessie Sams: But that OK, so those by the way, I also mentioned another one on my list While talking about to have someone by the throat.
Jessie Sams: Because, then I said that means like i've got something on you, where you can have something on someone meaning like I can bribe you because I have the secret or I have knowledge or I have you know information about you, that it could be used against you.
Jessie Sams: And so, that is another interesting one that it, it makes sense when you break it down like semantically why it's there, and yet again when you're approaching it from another language you would.
Jessie Sams: Have a very differently potentially now just potentially but probably.
Jessie Sams: I actually have no idea how to say that in any language other than English, and that includes any of the languages i've created i've no idea to say that I feel like you would almost have to break it down for some languages causally to say like they know.
Jessie Sams: Information they like because really the concept, there is like they know something or they have evidence, they possess evidence, they are touching evidence, they hold evidence against me.
Jessie Sams: yeah and so it's like you.
Jessie Sams: You would almost I feel like it would almost be broken down with some relative class structures are very different verbs that that's good to be something like that I don't but it's like it feels like if we have an expression for it in English.
Jessie Sams: It seems pretty like there's a pretty good chance they got expressions for sure sure, and I just you know never I suppose that's not something that you really talk about a lot in language classes right right like, how do you blackmail someone.
Jessie Sams: These are, these are really important lessons.
Jessie Sams: But that would be interesting one place to find that information I feel like.
Jessie Sams: would be in court documents, because that would be you know, like do they have evidence against you do they what you know what do they talk about.
Jessie Sams: When they're charging somebody if they have a kind of court system like we do if they don't then at that point, you know, not even sure how they would talk about it.
Jessie Sams: But yeah it does seem pretty reasonable that would be a an expression at some point in the language Then again, you could also conceive of a society where like that so taboo like you don't keep secrets about other people, and like use it against them that.
Jessie Sams: You would have to do a whole phrase a whole class of situation it's also weird because I mean one is using the have but also that it was on you, because you just say something about you, but doesn't work yeah.
Jessie Sams: Because yeah if I say, I have a story about you then i'm just going to be telling a story about you, is no big deal.
Jessie Sams: But if I will you can even say stuff like this, many menacingly it's like I have information about you, yes, but you can't say I have something about you.
Jessie Sams: Oh yeah you can yeah it's gone on, but also if you say I have information about you i'm less likely, you would have to really say it menacingly or in a context where be Superman missing versus I have information on you.
Jessie Sams: That immediately makes me step back and go oh there's something going on here versus like I have information about you could be like super basic like oh yeah I know your birthday, or like I already know this information, social security number or whatever yeah.
Jessie Sams: I.
Jessie Sams: can do whatever I want with it, but there's also speaking of to have something right, we also have like these really interesting, you can have it out.
Jessie Sams: You can have in for you can have it bad yeah and I wrote these down, especially have it out, so all three of those are strange, but you can have it out for somebody or you can have it out with somebody and they mean two entirely separate separate things yeah.
Jessie Sams: I mean, I think that the first one makes more sense, so if he says something like I have it out for him.
Jessie Sams: You could imagine that thing being a sword, you know you have it out and it's for him to have it out with someone.
Jessie Sams: makes a lot less sense.
Jessie Sams: And if you just say to have it out the implied meaning is the with someone meaning, yes it is like, if you say we, you know dot X and y had it out like you understand that they were fighting they.
Jessie Sams: You know they had some words there's another guys to have some more yes.
Jessie Sams: I think that these two could be related because if you have it out for somebody, then the implication is they haven't got it yet.
Jessie Sams: Okay, otherwise Why would it be for them re re it's kind of like say if I have a present for you the automatic interpretation is that you don't have it yet right and then, if you have it out with somebody you can't do anything with anybody unless.
Jessie Sams: you're both there by, and so you have it out for somebody, then you go and have it out with them.
Jessie Sams: Together it's a together activity.
Jessie Sams: But yeah, these are all and I don't really necessarily want to focus on each of those in turn because there's a lot there.
Jessie Sams: And there are still some other ones, I want to get to, on the other part of the list yeah, but we also have a lot of time expressions.
Jessie Sams: Because we in English treat time as something that you can own possess in us.
Jessie Sams: And you know there's like a time as money metaphor right, you can save time spend time, etc, but that also means you can have time, which means you can you know, have the time to read you can have time to cook so you can have time, in that sense, but you can also more metaphorically.
Jessie Sams: You can have a day like if I just say oh i've had a day, you know that that means it wasn't a good day.
Jessie Sams: Or you can also have the time of your life, you can.
Jessie Sams: You know, like there's all of these different ways that we've been applied that but it all comes back to the fact that, in English, we treat time as something you can possess.
Jessie Sams: and not all languages do that, and so this one, I think, is super tricky because I know a lot of people want to dig in.
Jessie Sams: In our streams to like what about concepts for time and things like that, but you really have to break it down and think how do they how do they view it, because if they view.
Jessie Sams: For instance, time is something you see passing by then you can't own it you can't take it you can't possess it.
Jessie Sams: So instead you're going to have to you know, maybe you saw a time or maybe you, you know see a day or that's right that's actually a really like it it's really a good expression, I like that idea I saw today.
Jessie Sams: did something like that and Lillian i'm trying to remember what that was actually the language I was thinking of because.
Jessie Sams: The concept of time and valerian is like water running, which means it's passing by and so say I remember one of your conceptual metaphors was that the water hitting the rock.
Jessie Sams: And whirling around it, you had something you explained it to me, and it was so cool and now that's like you don't even remember that's right yeah.
Jessie Sams: Really yeah I totally thought that was valerian.
Jessie Sams: Wrong one yeah but anyway in another language is.
Jessie Sams: Viewing you know the running water, as time that really puts you outside it, and running water is not something you can have possess or.
Jessie Sams: really do things because it's no longer running if you yeah if you take it up river.
Jessie Sams: And so you would do you would experience and talk about time very, very differently, all the way down to what verb you would use, you know with it.
Jessie Sams: Just to be able to say things like I have time to see you.
Jessie Sams: or whatever yeah.
Jessie Sams: Or if I just asked you have time.
Jessie Sams: Early is just asking, I have the time of my life to see you.
Jessie Sams: can't make some can't go mixing those metaphors.
Jessie Sams: It doesn't work.
Jessie Sams: But that is also interesting that to me like.
Jessie Sams: If you just say Oh, she had a time or she had a time with it like that's negative versus Oh, she had the time of her life, like is always going to be positive, even if, like, so to say something negative like she had you have to say she had the worst time of her life, where she had.
Jessie Sams: A horrible time of her life.
Jessie Sams: Like you have to like actually modify it.
Jessie Sams: In ways to make it negative yeah.
Jessie Sams: And then, of course, in my head i'm singing the song and watching the lift happen had the time of my life, I would not have a good time, if I had to do that list there's David doing the lift with his hand wasn't very good, it was not nobody saw that.
Jessie Sams: They will on YouTube okay so some of these then like.
Jessie Sams: kind of go back and forth, because some of them are maybe less obvious versus more obvious on my my list here.
Jessie Sams: But one thing that I have come up against I know we're thinking about languages is that it is, I think kind of odd that, in English, we do treat so many things as possible.
Jessie Sams: to the point where like you can have a car right, which means I own a car, but then you can also just say Oh, I have a son.
Jessie Sams: And like that puts owning a person sort of in the same category right as owning these very physical possessions.
Jessie Sams: And so, this gets to you know, like alien double in inalienable these kinds of ideas, but it's also just like the concept of how would the language handle.
Jessie Sams: Having like in a family line, I have a father, I have a son like that's.
Jessie Sams: Very English way of saying it yeah i'm, this is one of the first kind of Aha moments for me because either in this one studying Arabic.
Jessie Sams: Arabic doesn't have a verb for to have at all and, by the way, this is something that case this hasn't come across it there's some.
Jessie Sams: Language that don't have a verb for each position they don't have a verb or to have but Arabic uses two different prepositions for having, for example, a car and and mother so it'd be you know i'm the say yeah.
Jessie Sams: And and it's kind of like a preposition that means at her on so it also doesn't have a verb for to be there's no to be in here.
Jessie Sams: So it's a nice idea at me as a car with no is but Lee for.
Jessie Sams: Mother would be you know.
Jessie Sams: The room right so we're mother and I have no idea i'm just nodding to be like that's by no means mother is my mother so Leone and that's I have a mother leia, which is, I have a brother.
Jessie Sams: And, and again no for to be there and and this, by the way this preposition it doesn't flecked but the pronouns and Arabic can be attached to.
Jessie Sams: prepositions the way they can be two verbs and so on these I have on the Chi would be you have your man i'm lucky, you have your woman and so on, and the same thing with the only and.
Jessie Sams: A lucky lucky lucky so yeah that is so that's I think super cool.
Jessie Sams: And then also along with like separating out like actual possessions that can be had versus ones that can't that you don't own.
Jessie Sams: is also our differences to say like.
Jessie Sams: I have a son meaning like in general, like.
Jessie Sams: that's just in general versus to have a baby, or like Oh, she had a son, yesterday you know, like yeah meaning to give birth and we use it in the same.
Jessie Sams: We use the same verb yes, we can use different you know ones, obviously, if we want to say, like Oh, she gave birth yesterday, but you can be having a baby meaning you're pregnant.
Jessie Sams: Or you can be like actively having a baby mean you're giving birth, but we used to have there in so many situations which again is not something that that you would.
Jessie Sams: To do yeah it's a really weird trick have to list it with the same person because it's like you know, I have a daughter, that means I have a daughter right now.
Jessie Sams: I had a daughter, it meant that you know, I was associated with somebody who gave birth to a daughter, but it's also something that you could say after they've died, I had a daughter.
Jessie Sams: And you know I don't anymore.
Jessie Sams: And it's a different.
Jessie Sams: interpretation you with each of those things, one is like an ongoing you know state another one is an event a tea like event, you know, the idea that.
Jessie Sams: I mean, even though it does doesn't just happen like that, when you give birth, you know the ideas, one point, you did what you did.
Jessie Sams: Just just happened like a sneeze yeah versus you know if you say something like you know I had a great grandfather that's also it's not necessarily T like that it was like.
Jessie Sams: Well, I guess, it is, but it's like it's not looking at it as a change of state, it was there was a state that occurred, for a long period of time and that period has ended.
Jessie Sams: You know yeah yeah I will say they the ambiguity disappears when you take it out of children, because as soon as you say, like.
Jessie Sams: I have a father or I had a father it's true you know pointed somebody think you gave birth right right um it's only if it's you know baby child.
Jessie Sams: daughter or son or so on, yes, and so that's like the only way that we have that but.
Jessie Sams: But then that is also like and actually going back to the Arabic example, would there be a different preposition for like Okay, so I have a mother.
Jessie Sams: But then I have a boyfriend or I have a husband is very different know us leave for that, and when I say leave that means I you know, on me right right.
Jessie Sams: You know, different pronouns for the different ones, but you'd easily, as well as, like, I have a friend or.
Jessie Sams: Because obviously those relationships are very different, so I could can see by the language actually using different verbs or add positions.
Jessie Sams: To talk about the different levels of quote having when it's things like okay everybody has a mother so it's like that's going to be a very like.
Jessie Sams: inalienable kind of thing versus you know, having a relationship like a friendship, or something that you know, is a little bit more, and surely alien Abul.
Jessie Sams: But still being very different from like I have.
Jessie Sams: A table yeah.
Jessie Sams: which also sometimes doesn't even mean I own it you could just say, I have a table in my apartment.
Jessie Sams: But maybe that furniture came with the apartment and it's not actually yours it's just like oh yeah it is there is a table and in the apartment yeah and I so sorry now i'm just like.
Jessie Sams: really gets in your head when you start thinking about the ways that you use your own language and that's also OK, so in other ones, speaking of objects that you can have like to have glasses.
Jessie Sams: or to have contacts.
Jessie Sams: which usually, when you say that what you're actually saying is not like I own them what you're usually saying is actually something more along the lines of I need help, seeing.
Jessie Sams: yeah and so like I can be on the phone with somebody and they could be like you know talking about something.
Jessie Sams: I don't I don't know like having to wear 3D glasses at a movie or something and I can be like Oh, I have glasses.
Jessie Sams: And what i'm really saying is like, I have to wear these other ones to see and that's going to make it hard for me to put the 3D glasses on because they never fit over the actual glasses that you're wearing.
Jessie Sams: But like you can use it in a way that actually doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you're trying to point out that you own them you're trying to point out like I can't see without them, indeed, because you know I have glasses, but right now I don't have glasses frame.
Jessie Sams: True they're both true, and so what David is pointing out is that most of the time he can't actually see yeah this is this is also like one of those places where.
Jessie Sams: You know, we think about changes in verbs is being on the verb and here it's like an article.
Jessie Sams: So it's like.
Jessie Sams: saying I have my glasses doesn't mean the same thing as I have glasses.
Jessie Sams: base if you say I have my glasses, then i'm assuming you have with you there on you they're on you.
Jessie Sams: Which doesn't mean that they're necessarily on your face just somewhere with you um but yeah that that does really change or if you say, I have the glasses now it's like yeah you're like.
Jessie Sams: Holding a pair of glasses we've been discussing not that you necessarily need them or that there anything related yeah.
Jessie Sams: That is really interesting that that completely changes.
Jessie Sams: it's kind of the same thing when people are asking about we have valerian it's like well there's no distinction between you know and so like shouldn't any of these translations in English be okay it's like.
Jessie Sams: yeah but it's like with the tense you're using and the context, here it makes much more sense for this in this situation to be indefinite this one to be definite it's it's it's a weird type of thing where it's like it doesn't necessarily matter what's there and what isn't there.
Jessie Sams: The interpretation can be very strong unless you really build up a context to force it to be something different right right.
Jessie Sams: But um These are all things that again I feel like they're less obvious by way of being idiomatic.
Jessie Sams: In the way that we we use them in our daily life, because I feel like it would be super tempting if we were handed a line that says, you know.
Jessie Sams: I don't know.
Jessie Sams: Bobby has glasses, and so we you know in translating that look at it and think Okay, you know.
Jessie Sams: here's what we need, but we would need to really step back and say what are they actually saying and we may end up.
Jessie Sams: Even having to throw the whole line out and be like start over and say you know yeah it could be like something different, like you can imagine, of language that uses the verb need there instead or use right yeah.
Jessie Sams: Anyway, by the way, looking at the time i'm knowing what you gotta do you got a list here.
Jessie Sams: We do have a list, but also like there's a lot that we could can play and just once, we could throw out to be like hey remember again things we don't think about as much.
Jessie Sams: Like oh i'll have the fish at a restaurant where what you're saying is i'm ordering or this is please bring me this thing.
Jessie Sams: say the waiter you know i'll have the fish is like Oh, you will you think that's gonna happen.
Jessie Sams: you're gonna pay for it.
Jessie Sams: Oh, my gosh i'm already like to have a party which means you know that's a tough one, that is a tough one, because then all the other ways that I was about to say are also very specific to English to throw a party to hold a party.
Jessie Sams: And so it's like these are all very English tea, and so you would need to really again think about what what does that actually mean for your speakers to host gosh throw it throw is very weird you can throw a party and throw a party, a shower.
Jessie Sams: Oh, but if you have a shower you're more likely talking about actually bathing.
Jessie Sams: yeah like i've had a shower today versus i'm throwing a shower for someone.
Jessie Sams: I could say, I had a shower meaning like somebody a through a shower for me for with gifts and you know baby shower wedding shower whatever.
Jessie Sams: But like that would really take context, otherwise, if you just out of the blue said Oh, I had a shower I would assume what you meant was you were in water yeah and imagine how much world building and just background information goes into the expression to have a vacation.
Jessie Sams: is just so much.
Jessie Sams: It implies so much as yes, it really does also to have a dream to have a goal to have potential.
Jessie Sams: These are all again very like you need to get inside the space of what does that mean, I think one of my favorite pairs though was like to have power hmm because I can without context.
Jessie Sams: Ferry obviously to me take two very different meanings I have power, meaning, like the electricity is working versus I have power, meaning like i'm in charge.
Jessie Sams: Which in charge, then leads to electricity, anyway, but those are very, very different but it's like why I have power would mean I possess the electric currents that are currently running and actually running.
Jessie Sams: Because like that.
Jessie Sams: I don't maybe you don't talk about it as much when your power doesn't go out as often.
Jessie Sams: But, especially where i've lived in the past that was a very big deal, do you have power, do you not have power when speaking specifically about utilities and whatnot or like some people would actually build like little cabins that didn't have power at all.
Jessie Sams: But they were you know really meant for like hunting cabins or the grid cabins and so yeah if you think about the like what this buys us by saying this is, if you were to speak more literally.
Jessie Sams: You would be losing a lot when you'd be bearing elite quite a bit because, basically, something that would be more literal again the all of this is couched conceptual metaphor, but something that would be more literal would be to say you know, do you have power, you could say.
Jessie Sams: Yes, there is electricity running to the House or yes there's electricity running to my house right now.
Jessie Sams: And so it's like as in of itself metaphorical for the running yep and it's like you have to get so far before you get to the my house part right right.
Jessie Sams: And it's just like and also there is constructions are just kind of clunky.
Jessie Sams: it's so much easier if you put the like you know the subject right in front and then you just use this bleached verb and then the thing yeah you know.
Jessie Sams: It makes it a lot easier and a lot quicker and it also gives the person, the information they want quicker.
Jessie Sams: Because we're so least I have do you have power it no it's not that we're lazy we're trying to be efficient, otherwise we'd be wasting time i'm.
Jessie Sams: Always yell at my students when they say.
Jessie Sams: You know, like Oh, they did it because they're lazy speaker or whatever and it's like no it's efficiency is not laziness if you realize, you can use.
Jessie Sams: A lot less to get the same meaning across you would be silly to not use that a lot less, and so you know, save your time for the more important things, so you have time later.
Jessie Sams: I want to put a pin in that or at least just musing that, for one reason often you'll see commoners get sidetracked where it's like.
Jessie Sams: or a linguist to it's like no language ever does this or con layer says, you know i'm going to have my language, have you know 5 billion words for the seventh page of a book.
Jessie Sams: And it's like if you're looking at natural languages, I wish I could get these con layers and these linguists, in the same room to tell them there's a reason why natural languages are the way they are.
Jessie Sams: it's not the case that languages can't do these things it's just not very practical.
Jessie Sams: that's why and there's really no other explanation needed beyond that it's not like oh it's impossible for language learning the sorts impossible for a human being to learn this that's ridiculous no.
Jessie Sams: it's just not practical not efficient digression um okay so as a side note yeah.
Jessie Sams: Another way of saying, do you have power that I could envision asking in a language, where electricity is a thing or you know, whatever would be something like deer lights burn hmm meaning like are they I like that something or it could be noise related.
Jessie Sams: Is your House crackling.
Jessie Sams: You know, like you could think about all these different ways to be like, how could they say that you're right like at the point where.
Jessie Sams: there's a very short expression in English, if you need three sentences to convey the same thing in your language, you may start thinking like Is this something they talked about a lot, because if so they're going to shorten it.
Jessie Sams: they're not going to keep doing that very inefficient way of speaking, unless it is again like something that.
Jessie Sams: Maybe electricity is so uncommon in your world that like you really do need three sentences, because people will be like wait wait, they have white.
Jessie Sams: And you would need to actually explain the concept and and whatnot to be able to translate that sentence well you know we were watching.
Jessie Sams: The gilded age in there was actually a kind of topic around town, there is electricity in that house yeah you know.
Jessie Sams: And that was a story at the time, you know, and that was certainly true of our world at one point in time it's not anymore, but there was a time where it's like.
Jessie Sams: Probably you'd be more likely to say there is electricity at same place because simply bit they're being electricity, that was the news right right.
Jessie Sams: You know what's interesting.
Jessie Sams: I would never say for a house mm hmm.
Jessie Sams: Maybe it no Let me take that that never I don't think I would say, for a house the power is on.
Jessie Sams: I would say the power is out, I would not say the power is in.
Jessie Sams: The electricity is out fine, but I would not say the electricity is in.
Jessie Sams: me I could say I could say on but no, but the out and in oh versus like if I say the electricity is all i'm assuming somebody turned it off like you didn't pay your bills versus the electricity is out, meaning like there was a natural disaster, but I can't say it's in.
Jessie Sams: I can say it's on but not in.
Jessie Sams: Well that's because that's not the type of out, it is it's the it's the metaphor of a filled jar so you can be out of liquid in the JAR or not enough liquid in the JAR.
Jessie Sams: Would you be full I don't know there's.
Jessie Sams: I don't know.
Jessie Sams: there's electricity in the House, you can say that, yes, yes there's liquid in the JAR.
Jessie Sams: But you can't just say electricity isn't just like you can't say the liquid is in.
Jessie Sams: huh wow okay So these are all all things to think about and I think we do our minds yeah we did because that's I mean like forget electricity it's like.
Jessie Sams: There is no water in the JAR the water is out there is liquid in the JAR the waters and you can't say it, why not, but you can say the doctor isn't.
Jessie Sams: Okay, so this was really what I hope a fun deep dive into something very specific.
Jessie Sams: That, I think, sometimes we take for granted, when we are speaking, you know in our native languages are your first languages or even a second language, you know very well.
Jessie Sams: These are just things that you can do without really thinking about conceptually what do they mean and how would How would another language use these things.
Jessie Sams: And sometimes you don't have to overthink it for some languages, they also use have in these situations, and so, for some of them it's like.
Jessie Sams: that's fine you know you don't have to reconceptualize every single use have to have.
Jessie Sams: or whatever words you're working with, but if it has been semantically bleached for a language you're very familiar with and you're trying to translate it into another language.
Jessie Sams: It can be really fun to choose different verbs that gets semantically bleached and in their own ways to translate these you know new, by the way, it'd be fun to to have this list to the.
Jessie Sams: You know the.
Jessie Sams: Actual yummy and then we never even got to your list, and so we got this you did it.
Jessie Sams: hit all yours yeah all mine are on there I couldn't believe that you, you got both you have to have out and have it in fours like I thought I was really clever coming up with those oh.
Jessie Sams: It was clever we're just both clever yeah oh alright, well, we hope that you had fun and know every time.
Jessie Sams: or had a laugh, as we had this chat during our podcast.
Jessie Sams: I know, no i'm not going to stop sorry it's gonna get really out you're gonna have to.
Jessie Sams: But we.
Jessie Sams: say I don't know why I said, but there that was totally the wrong conjunction, I really should have said and.
Jessie Sams: You know, and so in Russian army in sport and, in part, well perfect I was doing a little Russian moment.
Jessie Sams: And we're, but we hope you have a wonderful week slash month until next time we hear or see you, and in the meantime.
Jessie Sams: Stay grammar grammar bye everybody.
Jessie Sams: Where did the okay i'm gonna have to really remember it so you go back.