WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.820 --> 00:00:16.770 Jessie Sams: Hello and welcome to the link time chat. It is episode 11 and this time I'm prepared for that because last time we were so lost on what number. It was that it became engraved in my mind. So now I know we're on episode 11 2 00:00:17.220 --> 00:00:25.800 Jessie Sams: Which is very exciting because we are coming close to episode 12 which of course marks a year. So we're only one month away from a full year of podcasting. 3 00:00:27.270 --> 00:00:31.260 David J. Peterson: How is that possible when we didn't even start this until February. 4 00:00:31.590 --> 00:00:36.240 Jessie Sams: We our first guess was March 1, this will be aired on January 1 5 00:00:36.300 --> 00:00:37.440 David J. Peterson: February 1 will 6 00:00:37.440 --> 00:00:38.340 Jessie Sams: Be yeah 7 00:00:38.850 --> 00:00:40.470 David J. Peterson: Yes, I got it now. 8 00:00:41.160 --> 00:00:44.640 Jessie Sams: I'm, I'm happy to introduce you to the calendar. You're welcome David 9 00:00:44.670 --> 00:00:52.050 Jessie Sams: I'm not great at it. I'm not great at it. I'm not gonna lie calendars has never been my strong suit. This is where you need me. 10 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:54.510 David J. Peterson: You know, when 11 00:00:55.530 --> 00:01:03.570 David J. Peterson: When you know the calendar that, by the way, none of your students found in the D amp D class that we did right 12 00:01:03.930 --> 00:01:04.530 Jessie Sams: Right, yeah. 13 00:01:04.890 --> 00:01:14.490 David J. Peterson: Yeah, nobody found that the hidden the hidden links I created a calendar for my D amp D world which is which is perfect. In other words, it has 14 00:01:16.230 --> 00:01:29.250 David J. Peterson: There aren't there aren't your tunes know there's only one mode. I didn't, I didn't mess around with two months because I knew, I knew about the book. So yeah, so one moon, but every single month has 15 00:01:30.810 --> 00:01:32.430 David J. Peterson: 35 days. 16 00:01:32.910 --> 00:01:33.360 Okay. 17 00:01:34.440 --> 00:01:49.440 David J. Peterson: And every single week has five days or was it's no I think it's five days. Yeah, every single week has five days and then there's a leftover month at the end month right that just has, however, many leftover days there and 18 00:01:49.470 --> 00:01:50.550 Jessie Sams: How's that perfect 19 00:01:51.660 --> 00:02:01.410 David J. Peterson: Oh no, it's perfect in that there's just one small month that has between one and five days depending on you know leap years in the lunar cycle right 20 00:02:01.530 --> 00:02:09.270 Jessie Sams: So why not just extend the final month and just say this last month has 36 to 41 days. 21 00:02:09.480 --> 00:02:14.670 David J. Peterson: Because that extra very small month is just a celebration week 22 00:02:15.480 --> 00:02:20.190 Jessie Sams: Okay. Okay, so that's that's really why you think it's perfect, but it's really 23 00:02:20.190 --> 00:02:23.550 David J. Peterson: Not so perfect. If you're in a year where it's like, oh, it's a one day week 24 00:02:23.790 --> 00:02:24.390 Yay. 25 00:02:26.460 --> 00:02:29.700 David J. Peterson: Yeah, I mean, back to back to Monday or 26 00:02:30.900 --> 00:02:34.470 David J. Peterson: Bell Shay, I think, is the first word is the word for Monday in that one. 27 00:02:35.160 --> 00:02:35.670 Sure. 28 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:41.790 Jessie Sams: Nice. Okay, so I now know what your definition of a perfect year is 29 00:02:42.270 --> 00:02:44.220 Jessie Sams: Yes, I'm glad we have that covered 30 00:02:45.150 --> 00:02:45.780 Jessie Sams: I would like 31 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:49.260 Jessie Sams: To tell our listeners that today is a special episode. 32 00:02:49.770 --> 00:02:58.170 Jessie Sams: Because not only is it number 11 which is always fun right good number. I prefer odd numbers, by the way, in case you're wondering. 33 00:02:59.940 --> 00:03:01.740 Jessie Sams: It's one of those preferences. 34 00:03:03.630 --> 00:03:06.600 Jessie Sams: And today, David is taking charge 35 00:03:08.550 --> 00:03:08.850 Jessie Sams: And 36 00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:12.090 Jessie Sams: He's just nodding like oh wait, that means I have to talk 37 00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:20.190 Jessie Sams: So it's gonna be a very quiet episode as I stare at him waiting to tell me what we're talking about. 38 00:03:21.150 --> 00:03:22.170 David J. Peterson: To tell you what I was thinking about 39 00:03:24.480 --> 00:03:24.930 David J. Peterson: Drinking 40 00:03:27.420 --> 00:03:29.010 Jessie Sams: Water is down on the table. 41 00:03:29.490 --> 00:03:33.600 David J. Peterson: Because when you said that I was just in my mind. I was like, ooh. 42 00:03:34.620 --> 00:03:36.390 David J. Peterson: And it was waiting back to watch 43 00:03:39.690 --> 00:03:45.810 Jessie Sams: Okay, this isn't. This is also the episode where we learn that David is really two people. 44 00:03:47.760 --> 00:03:51.900 Jessie Sams: And one of them knows that they are doing something today. The other one is like, oh, I 45 00:03:53.370 --> 00:03:54.840 Jessie Sams: Can't wait. Okay. 46 00:03:55.110 --> 00:04:02.610 David J. Peterson: Okay, alright, alright. So for today's topic. This was one. This was kind of a, this is kind of a meteor one that I wanted to dig into 47 00:04:03.060 --> 00:04:16.110 David J. Peterson: But it seems like an obvious one, so obvious that I had to go back to each of our podcast to make sure that we hadn't discussed this already. Because I wouldn't put it past me to forget about it and then be really, really embarrassed when I set this 48 00:04:16.440 --> 00:04:20.700 David J. Peterson: Up and you just said, like we did that, three months ago. 49 00:04:21.180 --> 00:04:22.320 Jessie Sams: In Episode four 50 00:04:22.890 --> 00:04:24.480 David J. Peterson: Yep, so 51 00:04:25.530 --> 00:04:30.300 David J. Peterson: What I wanted to talk about was con legging pedagogy. 52 00:04:32.580 --> 00:04:39.720 David J. Peterson: Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's right there, you know, and so I just thought it would be cool to like really dig into it. 53 00:04:40.980 --> 00:04:47.700 David J. Peterson: And and of course we have we have our own personal history with it. And then I have my recent history with this so 54 00:04:50.430 --> 00:04:51.960 David J. Peterson: A little bit of background. 55 00:04:54.150 --> 00:04:55.020 David J. Peterson: I was 56 00:05:01.650 --> 00:05:03.360 Jessie Sams: So you totally 57 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:03.720 For 58 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:07.410 David J. Peterson: Just a second. Marion do you 59 00:05:07.980 --> 00:05:08.760 David J. Peterson: Wells Jensen. 60 00:05:09.870 --> 00:05:12.510 Jessie Sams: So you totally froze. I don't your 61 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:17.610 Jessie Sams: Your video is 100% frozen and I missed a big chunk of what you said. 62 00:05:19.320 --> 00:05:26.490 Jessie Sams: Yeah, yeah. Now you're moving again you're moving again. I did hear the words speculative grew Marion though. 63 00:05:27.390 --> 00:05:30.540 Jessie Sams: And sherry was Jensen, like, That's literally all I heard 64 00:05:31.320 --> 00:05:35.430 David J. Peterson: Okay, I mean of course it was going to happen right then we 65 00:05:35.490 --> 00:05:35.730 Jessie Sams: Yes. 66 00:05:35.760 --> 00:05:43.950 David J. Peterson: We've had remarkable luck with the podcasts. I think given you know internet and technology. But of course, it had to cut out right then. So 67 00:05:45.060 --> 00:05:53.760 David J. Peterson: Going back to our speculative grim area days many, many, many moons ago. Do you know, Sherry wells Jensen. 68 00:05:54.660 --> 00:06:00.180 Jessie Sams: No, no. However, am I aware of the name. Do I know the name. Yes. 69 00:06:00.900 --> 00:06:18.810 David J. Peterson: Okay. So Sherry was Jensen is a is a con Langer and also a professor of linguistics. Well, linguistics, she's a professor of English because they don't have a linguistics department at Bowling Green State University. The one in Ohio, not the Bowling Green in Kentucky. The one I meant to 70 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:28.440 David J. Peterson: And the first place I knew about her. Was she contributed in an article to speculative remarry. And as a Braille Encoding of cling on 71 00:06:29.520 --> 00:06:36.210 David J. Peterson: Because she is. She's also blind and been blind for many, many years and ukulele player. 72 00:06:37.590 --> 00:06:38.550 David J. Peterson: Anyway, so 73 00:06:39.750 --> 00:06:47.670 David J. Peterson: We got to know each other with spec RAM. She was one of the she was the alternate when we did the death rocky competition. 74 00:06:48.270 --> 00:06:49.920 Jessie Sams: Which. That's right. Yeah. 75 00:06:50.430 --> 00:06:58.440 David J. Peterson: Which I don't even understand why there wasn't alternate should have just been called a finalist, but they called her an alternate for some reason. And then she dropped out because 76 00:06:59.460 --> 00:07:03.510 David J. Peterson: While she was excited about the prospect of, you know, professional counseling and she found 77 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:09.690 David J. Peterson: That subject matter of a song of ice and fire to be too violent and objectionable. And honestly, she wasn't wrong. 78 00:07:11.340 --> 00:07:21.270 David J. Peterson: But, but she did amazing work, she also was a finalist for the next job that we ran for Noah. 79 00:07:23.220 --> 00:07:24.030 David J. Peterson: The movie Noah. 80 00:07:24.510 --> 00:07:25.260 Jessie Sams: Right, what 81 00:07:25.380 --> 00:07:25.980 David J. Peterson: Russell Crowe. 82 00:07:27.810 --> 00:07:40.950 David J. Peterson: Anyway, so, so we've known each other for a bit and she was going to be participating in a panel at the LX Marriott you know right nearby. 83 00:07:42.270 --> 00:07:56.190 David J. Peterson: With a group called METI METI and that stands for messaging extraterrestrial intelligence. Unlike SETI, which is the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence 84 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:06.000 David J. Peterson: And apparently this group METI they like meet every so often and talk about what it might be like to message aliens. 85 00:08:07.980 --> 00:08:14.370 David J. Peterson: And I thought, Well, that's interesting. And she invited me to give a talk at their symposium. 86 00:08:15.750 --> 00:08:19.200 David J. Peterson: And I was like, well, okay, I'll do something with this. 87 00:08:21.390 --> 00:08:24.330 David J. Peterson: Totally random backstory for extra credit when I took 88 00:08:26.460 --> 00:08:31.020 David J. Peterson: It was an astronomy course at Berkeley to fulfill a breath requirement. 89 00:08:32.370 --> 00:08:47.400 David J. Peterson: For extra credit. We could go to a meeting that was going to be held at Berkeley, a one day symposium called the stress Astronomical Society to Pacific and so that whatever and I get there and the Astronomical Society. This the Pacific is nothing but 90 00:08:48.810 --> 00:08:53.880 David J. Peterson: Talking about searching for aliens. So, like, I mean, doesn't sound like it but I 91 00:08:54.030 --> 00:08:55.410 Jessie Sams: I sat through right like 92 00:08:55.680 --> 00:09:00.510 David J. Peterson: Yeah, I sat through like six or seven scholarly talks on the search for aliens. 93 00:09:01.890 --> 00:09:04.290 David J. Peterson: And I know a lot more than I did before. 94 00:09:06.810 --> 00:09:07.350 David J. Peterson: By the way, 95 00:09:07.860 --> 00:09:10.440 Jessie Sams: I'd like that. That's your summary. I know a lot more 96 00:09:11.850 --> 00:09:17.220 David J. Peterson: So there's actually a date is coming up in 2002 not you know right away, but in seven years and 97 00:09:18.810 --> 00:09:19.800 David J. Peterson: They said that 98 00:09:21.210 --> 00:09:29.460 David J. Peterson: They have a specific way of searching for aliens that they're using. I think it was radio telescope or something like that. And they said, 99 00:09:30.660 --> 00:09:39.180 David J. Peterson: In 25 years we will either have discovered, you know, alien life in a galaxy or discovered that there's none or 100 00:09:41.010 --> 00:09:43.260 David J. Peterson: Or we will have reached the limits of this technology. 101 00:09:44.910 --> 00:09:45.270 David J. Peterson: So, 102 00:09:45.570 --> 00:09:46.800 David J. Peterson: Okay 2027 103 00:09:47.820 --> 00:09:49.290 Jessie Sams: Oh that's coming up really fast. 104 00:09:49.620 --> 00:09:49.890 Yeah. 105 00:09:50.910 --> 00:09:51.240 Jessie Sams: Wow. 106 00:09:51.900 --> 00:09:55.830 David J. Peterson: I haven't heard anything yet, but we found water on them on Mars didn't 107 00:09:56.520 --> 00:09:57.240 Jessie Sams: I think so. 108 00:09:57.870 --> 00:09:58.140 That's 109 00:09:59.190 --> 00:09:59.730 Jessie Sams: Something 110 00:10:00.570 --> 00:10:00.810 David J. Peterson: Yeah. 111 00:10:00.870 --> 00:10:04.260 Jessie Sams: I don't know. Matt Damon was able to grow potatoes, somehow, yeah. 112 00:10:04.920 --> 00:10:05.400 Amazing. 113 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:13.740 David J. Peterson: Movie was tense. I didn't expect it to be tense, it should be, you know, funny and really kind of like, cool, but it gets really intense at the end. 114 00:10:13.770 --> 00:10:14.580 Jessie Sams: Yes, it does. 115 00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:28.500 David J. Peterson: Yes. Good stuff. Anyway, so. Alright, so I gave this talk, by the way, which was by him, which was basically saying, God, there was one of the talks was co authored by Noam Chomsky 116 00:10:29.730 --> 00:10:30.060 David J. Peterson: And 117 00:10:30.570 --> 00:10:31.590 David J. Peterson: And what I end this 118 00:10:31.650 --> 00:10:33.780 David J. Peterson: At this setting. Yes, yes. 119 00:10:34.020 --> 00:10:35.160 Jessie Sams: Are many not many. 120 00:10:35.370 --> 00:10:36.180 David J. Peterson: Many yeah 121 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:38.730 David J. Peterson: I was actually slightly terrified that he was 122 00:10:38.730 --> 00:10:45.330 David J. Peterson: Going to be there because I was like, what if he tries to talk to me. How do I restrain the hatred in my voice, but 123 00:10:46.770 --> 00:10:53.490 Jessie Sams: You got, you got it. Nevermind. I want he deserves some respect for what what he 124 00:10:53.670 --> 00:11:00.660 David J. Peterson: Did for the field, he moved the field forward 100 years and then set it back 100 years he deserves credit for that. 125 00:11:02.640 --> 00:11:09.270 Jessie Sams: But he gave he gave more visionaries, the leeway to do what they did, based on the moving forward part 126 00:11:10.500 --> 00:11:20.580 David J. Peterson: He sure did. And he also inspired a lot of graduate students to do a lot of good work after they found flaws in his work His work in the end. He banished to them to lesser universities. 127 00:11:20.760 --> 00:11:22.260 David J. Peterson: As he's done again and again and again. 128 00:11:22.680 --> 00:11:28.050 Jessie Sams: And do you know what that may be a better mood for them. Sometimes the lesser University is a more welcome home. 129 00:11:28.620 --> 00:11:32.580 David J. Peterson: Certainly was George Lake off David Perlmutter anyway. 130 00:11:34.260 --> 00:11:38.550 Jessie Sams: So okay, so you can you can feel how you want. I was just trying to be respectful. 131 00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:39.810 David J. Peterson: No on right 132 00:11:40.260 --> 00:11:50.970 David J. Peterson: That's honestly that's always the route to take. It's, it's rarely the route it take the route it because I usually open my stupid mouth and then regret it later. And then, you know, 133 00:11:51.930 --> 00:11:57.240 David J. Peterson: And then people hate me for it. And that's, that's kind of the way anyway. And then I just roll with it. 134 00:11:58.830 --> 00:11:59.070 David J. Peterson: Yeah. 135 00:12:00.420 --> 00:12:02.760 David J. Peterson: And I need a strange existence. Anyway, okay, so 136 00:12:03.930 --> 00:12:06.930 David J. Peterson: Here's the point we're talking about climbing pedagogy. 137 00:12:08.130 --> 00:12:25.500 David J. Peterson: At this after we were done with the mentee meeting, we went and had like lunch afterwards and sherry was there and a couple of other people were there, including Jeff Penske was there. And so as we were talking, he was saying, oh, by the way, you know, we're doing this. 138 00:12:27.150 --> 00:12:36.150 David J. Peterson: We're doing this book on coddling pedagogy and it's just immediately my old little 139 00:12:38.160 --> 00:12:59.880 David J. Peterson: My old burning hatred went from like zero to 1000 because I dare you, how dare you, my meeting for the first time, write a book on Conlon pedagogy and a I haven't heard of it and be nobody has told me about it until now due to this chance meeting. 140 00:13:01.050 --> 00:13:08.130 David J. Peterson: Because it made me so mad because, of course, anytime something is happening with coddling I feel like the content and community should be a part of it. 141 00:13:08.430 --> 00:13:16.620 David J. Peterson: And I always define the coddling and community via Episode two is your remember as the original group, even though it's much bigger than that now so 142 00:13:18.330 --> 00:13:18.780 David J. Peterson: I 143 00:13:18.810 --> 00:13:20.640 Jessie Sams: You doing great with this, by the way. 144 00:13:24.510 --> 00:13:25.410 David J. Peterson: So I 145 00:13:26.640 --> 00:13:41.580 David J. Peterson: Anyway, so I was talking to him and and and then I was basically interrogating. It was like, okay, so who's contributing to this because she was Jensen was contributing, which was good. 146 00:13:42.900 --> 00:13:53.970 David J. Peterson: But I was like, who's contributing to this, like, do you have, and I started listing like the first three names that come to my head, which are always Matt Pearson Doug ball and Jesse Sam's like 147 00:13:54.480 --> 00:14:05.790 David J. Peterson: Are these people contributing, like, Well, yeah. Yeah, we do have Matt. But no, I didn't know about Doug ball and Jesse and like, Well, of course you didn't, because you're not keyed in to the community. 148 00:14:06.870 --> 00:14:08.430 David J. Peterson: Anyway, so 149 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:16.560 David J. Peterson: Then, so I anyway I basically invited myself to contribute to this thing. 150 00:14:17.760 --> 00:14:20.190 David J. Peterson: And was then invited to contribute. 151 00:14:21.870 --> 00:14:24.480 David J. Peterson: You know, because I invited myself. 152 00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:26.460 And so 153 00:14:29.430 --> 00:14:33.480 David J. Peterson: And so I ended up writing I ended up writing a chapter for this book that I thought was pretty good. 154 00:14:34.560 --> 00:14:34.890 David J. Peterson: But 155 00:14:38.370 --> 00:14:39.600 David J. Peterson: This was just the introduction. 156 00:14:40.980 --> 00:14:50.130 Jessie Sams: It's this is quite the introduction, like I'm waiting to see where we end up. I think we're up to the point where you're fully on topic on 157 00:14:50.160 --> 00:14:51.330 Jessie Sams: Yelling pedagogy. 158 00:14:51.690 --> 00:14:52.920 Jessie Sams: So, so that's good. 159 00:14:53.280 --> 00:14:57.960 David J. Peterson: Yeah, so like I contributor chapter this book. It came out recently it's been on my mind. 160 00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:04.560 David J. Peterson: I did manage to get a couple of other people to contribute, but they never contacted you at all. 161 00:15:05.130 --> 00:15:07.410 David J. Peterson: No, it's just me straight 162 00:15:07.410 --> 00:15:07.980 Off. 163 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:17.730 David J. Peterson: And I feel fine, saying that here because this is our own Patreon podcast which eventually, other people will be able to see, but they're not gonna so 164 00:15:18.300 --> 00:15:30.330 David J. Peterson: Just looking at this and he and he's a good guy invited me to the, the Convention, they have over here, he introduced me to a cool board game that's fine. Got it pisses me straight off like 165 00:15:30.510 --> 00:15:44.250 Jessie Sams: Well, I feel like this may later use. You talk big now but in like eight months when this is released to everyone and he totally finds out he's mentioned, I don't know 28 times in this space like 15 minutes 166 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:52.440 Jessie Sams: He's going to listen and you may be like, Why did I open my mouth. Anyway, just just saying, I want you to mark this moment. 167 00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:53.730 Okay. 168 00:15:54.750 --> 00:15:56.190 David J. Peterson: Super 14th. Good. Got it. 169 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:13.920 David J. Peterson: I, I feel like. And you know, it's not even because of the status. I have now in the Caitlyn community. I always feel like if I make a recommendation then whoever gets it must take it seriously because I made it. It was 170 00:16:13.980 --> 00:16:19.830 David J. Peterson: My recommendation. How dare you not take it into consideration a and then be not act on it. 171 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:22.650 David J. Peterson: Anyway, 172 00:16:23.730 --> 00:16:24.840 Jessie Sams: Sad existence. 173 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:44.730 David J. Peterson: It is. Alright so that is that is that anyway so I anyway. But of course the entire reason that that we actually like are here is because of your class. Yeah, which is something that I find truly incredible 174 00:16:46.350 --> 00:16:56.550 David J. Peterson: There have been a number of online classes, but you're suspended existence since. Since when was the first year 2011 2011 175 00:16:56.730 --> 00:16:58.350 Jessie Sams: So this will mark the decade. 176 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:00.360 David J. Peterson: Going into spring 2021 177 00:17:00.870 --> 00:17:05.280 David J. Peterson: Spring 2021 will be 10 years that you've been teaching this class and 178 00:17:06.390 --> 00:17:19.290 David J. Peterson: What makes it more remarkable, aside from its quality which sets it apart from others is is where you've done it. I mean, especially at the beginning. You didn't even have a linguistics department. 179 00:17:19.860 --> 00:17:23.190 David J. Peterson: Right, right. It was, it was an English department. 180 00:17:24.570 --> 00:17:27.150 David J. Peterson: And you sold this to them. 181 00:17:28.260 --> 00:17:42.240 David J. Peterson: You said not only this tiny little linguistics program that we have not only should we be teaching you the other courses, but let me teach this, and I know that you have to think about this is 2011 2012 I 182 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:44.550 David J. Peterson: Still feel like you have to say to me, you can see 2011 183 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:46.170 David J. Peterson: Spring. 184 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:48.510 Jessie Sams: Semester. Yes, yes. 185 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.000 David J. Peterson: So this is before Game of Thrones debuted 186 00:17:52.410 --> 00:18:04.380 Jessie Sams: It. Yes. Because if I, if I remember correctly, I may have my years wrong. It was after avatar. So now up 187 00:18:06.210 --> 00:18:06.480 David J. Peterson: To that 188 00:18:07.350 --> 00:18:09.750 Jessie Sams: And so it was 189 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:18.120 Jessie Sams: It was definitely like that was in the the sort of public awareness. So, because that movie actually kind of had a long lasting. 190 00:18:18.990 --> 00:18:22.920 Jessie Sams: Effect it. When did it when to Game of Thrones debut. 191 00:18:23.580 --> 00:18:27.690 David J. Peterson: So the timeline works like this avatar came out in December 2009 192 00:18:29.040 --> 00:18:30.060 David J. Peterson: And so there was like 193 00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:36.480 David J. Peterson: For me personally, because I got I got the job for Game of Thrones in October. 194 00:18:37.350 --> 00:18:53.070 David J. Peterson: There was like two months where I was crazy excited. I was like, wow, I'm going to be the next Mark Coker and then avatar came out and I was like, well there goes that because they absolutely completely stole your thunder and it became like the big thing for con lightning. 195 00:18:53.730 --> 00:18:57.090 David J. Peterson: And then in April of 2010 196 00:18:58.650 --> 00:19:07.530 David J. Peterson: HBO agreed to let us run this press release saying that, you know, I've been hired to create the death rocky language, which caused a minor stir, but not really. 197 00:19:07.890 --> 00:19:08.970 David J. Peterson: Any really big. 198 00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:22.440 David J. Peterson: And then we finished filming on that show on that per season somewhere in 2010 and show would have debuted in May, I believe, of 2011 199 00:19:22.950 --> 00:19:24.870 Jessie Sams: Okay, because I remember 200 00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:35.010 Jessie Sams: So here's how my works. I knew that avatar come out. Well, at least I was fairly certain otherwise. My memory is just all miskin bubbled and that happens sometimes. 201 00:19:36.540 --> 00:19:46.560 Jessie Sams: But Avatar had come out in my students in my intro to linguistics class in the spring semester after it came out kept telling me about it. They're like, you have to see it. You have to see it. 202 00:19:47.790 --> 00:20:01.770 Jessie Sams: And after I introduced a morphology exercise where students like create their own little basically they're just creating a nonce language just enough to create like a data set for someone else to figure out what's going on in the language pattern to see if they 203 00:20:01.770 --> 00:20:03.780 Jessie Sams: Understood the differences of 204 00:20:04.350 --> 00:20:13.830 Jessie Sams: Of all the concepts they were supposed to remember. So like I would actually assign them like, Oh, you're going to have to use a fixation. To do this, you're going to have to use compounding. To do this, and so like they had to figure out 205 00:20:14.070 --> 00:20:20.400 Jessie Sams: How to like just create again just all fake all very regular but a data set for other people to identify 206 00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:37.230 Jessie Sams: As a which was really fun. By the way, but when I gave that exercise to my students, I had a student come up to me and they're like, Okay, if you haven't seen avatar yet, you have to because like you just made us do this and there's this language. So I didn't see it until 207 00:20:38.310 --> 00:20:52.050 Jessie Sams: Later in that semester. And when I saw it. That's when the idea actually came to me that wait like if this is such a big deal and everybody's talking about Navi. And my students really enjoyed this, you know, create your own data set thing. 208 00:20:52.860 --> 00:21:01.560 Jessie Sams: What would happen if I did like an entire semester and they had to do the whole language. And so I started pulling together ideas. I had to sell it. 209 00:21:02.070 --> 00:21:09.450 Jessie Sams: By the end of that semester because in fall like the way that academic scheduling works. You have to submit usually 210 00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:26.820 Jessie Sams: By sep tember what you're going to be teaching in the spring. So like I had to have everything ready to go and argued before I could get it on the schedule and fall of 2010 or 2010 as you would prefer to call it. And so, like all of that happened really relatively quickly. And so 211 00:21:28.050 --> 00:21:33.300 Jessie Sams: That was, that was sort of the timeline that led up to being able to offer it the first time. 212 00:21:34.530 --> 00:21:37.800 David J. Peterson: Okay, so let me dig into that a little bit actually. 213 00:21:39.210 --> 00:21:42.480 David J. Peterson: What what gave you the idea to do to do the problem set. 214 00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:53.160 Jessie Sams: That it was actually a prompt that at one point, I don't know if it's still a prompt in it, but in the language files and I was using the language files is the course book. 215 00:21:53.550 --> 00:21:54.630 Jessie Sams: And there was a prompt 216 00:21:54.750 --> 00:22:09.150 Jessie Sams: In the exercises for the morphology set. And I don't know if it's only in the teachers edition. I don't know if it's still there, but it was just like this offhand paragraph, like, oh, if you want to see if students really understand have them create their own data set. 217 00:22:10.830 --> 00:22:18.240 Jessie Sams: And I can't remember what the exact problem was I can't even tell you if I were in my campus office. I could try to find your 218 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:21.300 Jessie Sams: Old addition I was using that semester and try to 219 00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:28.860 Jessie Sams: Tell you more. But that's all I remember was that there was this prompt and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna run with this and like 220 00:22:29.250 --> 00:22:39.420 Jessie Sams: So I made that into an entire assignment for my students and it turned into like an in class day because they exchange the data sets in class and actually work them together in groups and 221 00:22:39.750 --> 00:22:46.410 Jessie Sams: And gave feedback, especially were like, oh, you said this morphine, does this thing, which I know your favorite word morphine. 222 00:22:47.100 --> 00:22:52.710 Jessie Sams: But it's like you say it does this thing, but in the translation. It doesn't quite match. When you do, you know, go from here to here. 223 00:22:53.490 --> 00:23:07.890 Jessie Sams: So it was really a way to show that they not only understood the concepts, but also understood, like the meaning differences that should be applied if you're saying you know this this little piece. Does this certain job, can you actually show that it does that job in the dataset. 224 00:23:09.690 --> 00:23:15.930 David J. Peterson: Even add an assignment is better than the stuff I usually did dang really good at facilitating group work, by the way. 225 00:23:16.470 --> 00:23:28.500 David J. Peterson: Which is something I've been very, very bad at historically just teaching like even in English like freshman composition. It really felt tacked on and I think that comes from my deep hatred of doing group work. 226 00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:31.710 Jessie Sams: But the point, though, is that 227 00:23:31.830 --> 00:23:37.200 Jessie Sams: When you, when you do facilitate group work, it's never for a great and I think that's your deep hatred. 228 00:23:37.620 --> 00:23:45.450 Jessie Sams: Because if it's not for a grade and the whole goal is just for you guys to go back and forth and for you to bring your own work and then to bring their own work. And so like 229 00:23:45.900 --> 00:23:58.260 Jessie Sams: You know, work together and figure things out from there. I think it gets a lot better. I never okay take that back. I have in the past, just because I really didn't want to grade that many papers I have done for that reason. 230 00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:04.170 Jessie Sams: But for my linguistics classes I've really shied away from ever having any 231 00:24:04.170 --> 00:24:13.860 Jessie Sams: Graded group work, and if I ever did. It was very clear where it was like, listen, you're going to do this presentation together, but like, you're going to submit to me what you did. 232 00:24:14.310 --> 00:24:20.160 Jessie Sams: And you get graded only on your part. Like I don't I don't grade the whole group together because of that because you and I 233 00:24:20.820 --> 00:24:31.320 Jessie Sams: I know at some point have talked, maybe not on the podcast. So we'll tell everybody out there listening, neither David nor I ever liked group work in school because we both 234 00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:42.870 Jessie Sams: Are a bit of control freaks, maybe. Um, but also, like, at some point, the other students like, Oh, you're going to do the work. So, here you go. And then everybody gets your grade that you worked really hard for 235 00:24:43.380 --> 00:24:43.770 David J. Peterson: Mm hmm. 236 00:24:45.690 --> 00:24:51.660 David J. Peterson: Very frustrating. But anyway, that's, that's something to keep in mind if I if I go back to teaching one day, which I assume I will 237 00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:53.160 It'll probably 238 00:24:54.210 --> 00:24:54.960 David J. Peterson: Yeah, okay. 239 00:24:54.990 --> 00:25:01.200 Jessie Sams: Well, I'm waiting for a university to just reach out to you and say, you know, here's the professor emeritus position, kind of thing. 240 00:25:02.040 --> 00:25:12.450 David J. Peterson: Finally, like here's here's just like a fake pH a fake honorary PhD and a fake honorary title, just do stuff. Let me do that. 241 00:25:14.250 --> 00:25:15.330 David J. Peterson: Someday anyway. 242 00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:24.300 David J. Peterson: Okay, so that's now let me ask a kind of a similar question in a separate way. So you've been a con longer though this entire time. 243 00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:26.100 David J. Peterson: You had 244 00:25:28.230 --> 00:25:32.370 David J. Peterson: Okay, I'm sorry. So this is a 2010 year teaching. When did you start at SF Bay. 245 00:25:33.450 --> 00:25:35.820 Jessie Sams: In 2009 fall of 2009 246 00:25:36.510 --> 00:25:38.610 David J. Peterson: Okay, so it really hadn't been that long. 247 00:25:39.810 --> 00:25:40.050 David J. Peterson: Yeah. 248 00:25:40.890 --> 00:25:50.640 Jessie Sams: So I was brand new, and by the way that sastre there was not yet a linguistics program. I am that person who was hired. And then same semester said, Hey, I'm going to create a minor 249 00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:58.440 Jessie Sams: And they went with it. Like, I can't even tell you how crazy that is because the number of people I know, who've been hired 250 00:25:58.770 --> 00:26:05.760 Jessie Sams: And like three, four or five years later, are still fighting like hell to get a linguistics minor program certificate anything 251 00:26:06.180 --> 00:26:19.770 Jessie Sams: And literally, I walked in the door and within a month of meeting. Everybody laid down my plan and was like, here we go. Here's what we need to do, which, by the way, requires creating like five new courses. 252 00:26:21.450 --> 00:26:22.950 David J. Peterson: Is incredible 253 00:26:23.490 --> 00:26:24.750 David J. Peterson: Yeah, I didn't know that. 254 00:26:24.810 --> 00:26:31.380 David J. Peterson: I, oh sorry, I thought that the linguistics program was there. I thought that's why you were hired that's 255 00:26:31.620 --> 00:26:49.860 Jessie Sams: Reasonable I was hired to teach the four classes they had on the books. And the only reason they were on the books was because they fulfilled degree requirements for other programs. And so it was basically they had an intro class. They had structures of English. 256 00:26:51.120 --> 00:27:05.610 Jessie Sams: They had a topics in linguistics, which they're like that hasn't been taught in so long. We don't even know what to do with it and history, the English language. And so those were the four classes I was given to start and at the very beginning. They had even 257 00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:19.770 Jessie Sams: They basically said, Really, the only two classes that have been offered in years were structures of English and history in English language. And so that's what I actually started teaching. Like, that's all they gave me at first. And so from there, I was like this is unacceptable, we're 258 00:27:20.910 --> 00:27:35.700 Jessie Sams: We're gonna make this bigger so I I yeah within that first semester was able to argue for and get approved all the way through the state level course modifications brand new courses on the books and the linguistics minor. Yeah. 259 00:27:38.220 --> 00:27:43.680 Jessie Sams: And at that point I was the only linguist, so they literally let me do this as the only linguist in the department at that point. 260 00:27:46.410 --> 00:27:48.600 David J. Peterson: That is unbelievable. 261 00:27:49.650 --> 00:27:51.210 David J. Peterson: That is just truly extraordinary 262 00:27:52.410 --> 00:27:53.220 David J. Peterson: My goodness. 263 00:27:56.850 --> 00:28:01.770 David J. Peterson: Sit with that for a second, hold on a sec. Let me see my notes here just so I can remember what the hell I'm doing. 264 00:28:04.830 --> 00:28:05.430 David J. Peterson: Wow. 265 00:28:06.840 --> 00:28:13.830 David J. Peterson: Ok, ok, man. How do I even get back. I'm still sitting with that. That's really, really, really incredible amazing 266 00:28:14.550 --> 00:28:16.980 David J. Peterson: I will say I was very, very lucky to have 267 00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:24.960 Jessie Sams: A department who supported the vision because honestly they they didn't have to because they didn't know me, I literally just been hired 268 00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:34.590 Jessie Sams: And it passed through department so that required department vote it required COLLEGE VOTE university level all the way through state board. 269 00:28:35.850 --> 00:28:45.240 Jessie Sams: And that is sort of a unique thing to have happen. I will say, like, so anybody out there listening thinking, oh, I'm going to be a professor and I'm gonna go start a program, it usually doesn't happen that way. 270 00:28:46.020 --> 00:29:04.560 David J. Peterson: No, it truly is. And the same thing with the same thing with my career. A lot of the things that have happened have required. Right. The, the, say so, of people who don't know us probably don't care about us and probably don't even fully understand what it is that we're trying to do. 271 00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:07.260 Jessie Sams: Right. Actually, yeah. 272 00:29:08.430 --> 00:29:08.880 Jessie Sams: Go on. 273 00:29:09.510 --> 00:29:12.960 David J. Peterson: It's just, and yet and miraculously, they just sign off on it. 274 00:29:14.220 --> 00:29:15.390 David J. Peterson: Were so many times they wouldn't 275 00:29:16.050 --> 00:29:20.280 Jessie Sams: Yeah yeah and I it was still a problem within 276 00:29:21.300 --> 00:29:26.730 Jessie Sams: I had probably been teaching there for, you know, five, six years and I would still have colleagues come up to me and asked me. 277 00:29:27.360 --> 00:29:32.820 Jessie Sams: What do you do in that class again because you know they're trying to advise the student. They're like, I don't really know what you teach 278 00:29:33.120 --> 00:29:40.440 Jessie Sams: And in one of the classes you know I had somebody asked me is that the class where you teach them where to put commas. And I'm like, oh, that's not even know 279 00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:57.060 Jessie Sams: Like that was still the perception was that like we teach. If you teach grammar that must mean you're teaching them how to, you know, use commas and semi colons and things like that. And it's like, that was really perception, even after I had been there for quite a while so 280 00:29:58.830 --> 00:30:12.330 Jessie Sams: Yeah, that's, that's, yeah, they had to sign off on something they literally had no idea other than their vague memories of like this one grad class. They took where they had to diagram sentences and like that's really the only memory, most of them had of linguistics. 281 00:30:13.650 --> 00:30:16.530 David J. Peterson: Incredible. So, man. 282 00:30:18.210 --> 00:30:30.990 David J. Peterson: Okay, so then 2011 comes and you're designing your first online course. And so, of course, the thing that jumped to my mind was. Were you familiar with any others at that time. 283 00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:34.860 Jessie Sams: With any other con lingers or online courses. 284 00:30:35.130 --> 00:30:36.000 David J. Peterson: Online courses. 285 00:30:36.510 --> 00:30:39.330 Jessie Sams: No I legit at that 286 00:30:39.330 --> 00:30:41.250 Jessie Sams: Point was like I'm recreating the world. 287 00:30:42.300 --> 00:30:42.930 David J. Peterson: Wow. 288 00:30:44.430 --> 00:30:49.950 Jessie Sams: I had so yeah no I had no idea. I actually. And so this is my naivete. 289 00:30:51.330 --> 00:30:55.440 Jessie Sams: I did not know the word coddling at that point. 290 00:30:56.610 --> 00:31:01.470 Jessie Sams: And so that's why the class was originally offered as invented languages because what do you call these things. 291 00:31:01.860 --> 00:31:09.660 Jessie Sams: And it wasn't until and it was already on the books that it was going to be taught in the spring. And so I started getting more in depth in the research and 292 00:31:10.110 --> 00:31:21.570 Jessie Sams: Trying to pull in actual resources because before that I had an idea of, you know, here's my comm link process. So it's going to, you know, the course is going to follow that same process and these kinds of assignments. This kind of output. 293 00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:26.940 Jessie Sams: So like I had that all laid out, but I wanted to be able to give students resources, obviously. 294 00:31:28.080 --> 00:31:38.220 Jessie Sams: And there wasn't really a book at that time that I could really necessarily use and sink my teeth into as a course book, so I created instead a very expensive course pack. 295 00:31:39.450 --> 00:31:51.060 Jessie Sams: Where I like wrote out all the information I wanted them to have. And as I was doing that I wanted to have resources. So I started looking at more information to try to pull in, you know, more examples because I was really only 296 00:31:51.930 --> 00:32:04.110 Jessie Sams: Familiar with a handful of con links at that point. And they were all ones that were like really well known. So I wanted to have more examples. So I started researching and that's when I realized like, oh, there's this other word 297 00:32:04.110 --> 00:32:08.220 Jessie Sams: Out there and that seems to be the word people prefer when they actually do it. 298 00:32:09.360 --> 00:32:09.540 David J. Peterson: And 299 00:32:09.630 --> 00:32:12.510 Jessie Sams: So that's when I learned the word online. 300 00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:16.320 Jessie Sams: Or even the term constructed language that point. 301 00:32:18.090 --> 00:32:33.240 Jessie Sams: So that doing the research for that course is actually how I became more aware of a bigger world, but I still wasn't aware of the actual community of con lingers quite yet. And my job. At this point I had been actively calling for. 302 00:32:34.770 --> 00:32:49.020 Jessie Sams: I mean, at this point, really actively calmly and I don't really start it until 2008 as my like active start date and so like I had been doing it for three years, completely unaware that there were resources out there that could have helped me 303 00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:50.820 David J. Peterson: Yeah, I mean, 304 00:32:53.100 --> 00:32:58.650 David J. Peterson: I mean, I suppose it's a little bit more surprising given than you were really, really, really into the internet era, but 305 00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:01.710 Jessie Sams: But we've had this discussion. 306 00:33:01.710 --> 00:33:02.520 Jessie Sams: Before where 307 00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:13.470 Jessie Sams: If you're not used to using the internet, it doesn't occur to you to use the internet, even when it's available. So that's, that's one of those things that happened. Yep. 308 00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:15.360 David J. Peterson: So, all right. 309 00:33:16.530 --> 00:33:24.540 David J. Peterson: Yeah, it's really incredible. Alright, so, um, okay. Your first course, by the way, how did it go 310 00:33:25.710 --> 00:33:32.100 Jessie Sams: It went really, really, really well. It barely made so I needed 10 students to make and 311 00:33:33.750 --> 00:33:35.160 Jessie Sams: Make we ended up with 12 312 00:33:35.670 --> 00:33:37.590 Jessie Sams: And one of the students dropped 313 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:50.820 Jessie Sams: At some point, and so we finished the class with 11 but it was a lot of good energy. It was actually, it ended up being like all female students and so that created this great energy in the classroom. 314 00:33:51.840 --> 00:34:01.710 Jessie Sams: It's also one of the reasons why the semester went great. And part of it was honestly because it was just like this really great energy of all of them working together. 315 00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:13.260 Jessie Sams: And it went so well that we created a class t shirt and like they actually and I couldn't. I didn't have the department funds or anything to actually support the purchase of that. So they each had to pay for their own t shirt. 316 00:34:14.040 --> 00:34:23.160 Jessie Sams: But they did it because they're like we want a class t shirt so like they pulled it together designed it. We I put it into a program. And, you know, ordered it from a local place and 317 00:34:23.670 --> 00:34:40.680 Jessie Sams: We had a class t shirt. By the end of the semester. And it's like, you don't really get that kind of community. Very often, but they, it was just wonderful so wonderful that quite frankly, at the end of it, I was like, I'm never teaching that class again because I don't want to ruin that memory. 318 00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:44.190 Jessie Sams: So I almost never taught it again. 319 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:48.150 Jessie Sams: Just because that first offering was was just the best 320 00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:50.400 David J. Peterson: One. Wonderful. 321 00:34:51.720 --> 00:34:59.730 David J. Peterson: It also, it also makes me feel better about my first class, since they were hoping I would get, you know, hundreds of students. 322 00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:04.740 Jessie Sams: I mean, it's so I think it's 323 00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:08.700 Jessie Sams: It's really hard to sell. 324 00:35:10.050 --> 00:35:14.700 Jessie Sams: Out of the blue like there has to be some sort of standing and the biggest thing you need 325 00:35:15.090 --> 00:35:23.610 Jessie Sams: Is students telling other students that they should take that class that's without that my experience in academia is you're not going to get 326 00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:30.750 Jessie Sams: A big student draw toward any class unless other students are saying, Oh my gosh, you need to take that class and 327 00:35:31.470 --> 00:35:40.740 Jessie Sams: That's the only way to do it like advertising doesn't work. They don't care about advertising telling all the advisors doesn't work because they don't you know they hear what their advisor, say, but you know they do what they're going to do. 328 00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:58.470 Jessie Sams: Like, none of that works. The only thing that really works is when you have that history of offering it and students tell others. That's literally the only thing, by the way, in case you're wondering for spring semester two sections of invented made so 329 00:35:59.190 --> 00:36:00.000 David J. Peterson: Both of them. Yeah. 330 00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:02.040 Jessie Sams: Are now are now going to run 331 00:36:02.640 --> 00:36:04.380 David J. Peterson: Right and 332 00:36:05.970 --> 00:36:10.860 David J. Peterson: I'm really tempted to talk to you about that, of course, because I want to help the best, but now that good stuff. 333 00:36:11.160 --> 00:36:13.770 Jessie Sams: Yeah, that'll be that'll be when we're not recording a podcast. 334 00:36:13.950 --> 00:36:16.080 David J. Peterson: Right, right, right, right. Okay. Okay, good. So 335 00:36:17.700 --> 00:36:18.030 David J. Peterson: Anyway, 336 00:36:20.520 --> 00:36:35.040 David J. Peterson: Sorry, I'm kind of got it getting off track from what I was planning to do but I'm still more interested in that. So, so 2013 the second time you teach the course right by the way did was it your decision to teach every two years, as opposed to every year. 337 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:52.260 Jessie Sams: Yes, because it was hard to get students to sign up for the course. And I didn't want to overwhelm and have it offered so frequently that I couldn't get enough students. The following year, because my goal was to never say it was going to be offered in the not offer it because 338 00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:58.170 Jessie Sams: You know, that doesn't turn out so well with trying to get students to take it in the future because then it's the 339 00:36:58.170 --> 00:36:59.460 Jessie Sams: Class. Oh, it doesn't make 340 00:36:59.850 --> 00:37:17.550 Jessie Sams: And so really, there's like this sort of balancing situation where, in general, we see our students in a two year rotation. And so the two year in between gap allowed us to like build up the course with all our current students to say take it this semester. 341 00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:20.790 Jessie Sams: So like I started telling students about it two years out. 342 00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:25.740 Jessie Sams: To try to help build that. But even with that. The second time I offered it 343 00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:34.380 Jessie Sams: I want to say that was the year I had maybe 14 students, sign up for it. 344 00:37:36.810 --> 00:37:38.130 Jessie Sams: Doesn't 13 I know by 345 00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:47.280 Jessie Sams: I finally was getting like I didn't have to worry about it. It just made, but like 2013 we were still fighting for it. 346 00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:50.160 Wow. 347 00:37:51.330 --> 00:37:59.400 David J. Peterson: And and how and how sorry. How did that. The second class go like that was, that was the year of course 348 00:38:00.420 --> 00:38:01.740 David J. Peterson: Of LCC five 349 00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:02.790 Right. 350 00:38:04.680 --> 00:38:07.200 Jessie Sams: And so one thing I have to stop and think. 351 00:38:09.510 --> 00:38:12.000 Jessie Sams: You know, that was the year that that happened. Okay. Okay. 352 00:38:13.650 --> 00:38:14.820 Jessie Sams: 2013 went well. 353 00:38:17.070 --> 00:38:20.400 Jessie Sams: There is another year where there is some drama but 2013 354 00:38:23.640 --> 00:38:27.000 Jessie Sams: That was a good year. No, that one went really well. 355 00:38:28.470 --> 00:38:38.760 Jessie Sams: That was one where I may have accidentally pissed off the counseling community because I set them up with clients to create a language for somebody else. 356 00:38:39.540 --> 00:38:40.290 David J. Peterson: Because I 357 00:38:41.160 --> 00:38:41.790 Jessie Sams: Was that 358 00:38:42.180 --> 00:38:43.170 David J. Peterson: What gave you that idea. 359 00:38:44.040 --> 00:38:54.240 Jessie Sams: I was doing a faculty learning community about service learning and how working with clients outside the university is supposed to be really good for students. And I'm like, hey, 360 00:38:54.780 --> 00:39:01.170 Jessie Sams: I'm doing this invented languages course I could set them up because the biggest problem that I encountered in 2011 361 00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:08.580 Jessie Sams: Was students coming to the table saying I'm not creative enough to create my own world and like they were scared to do it. So I'm like, Listen, I'm gonna take that away from you. 362 00:39:09.270 --> 00:39:23.430 Jessie Sams: Someone else is going to tell you what to create a language for someone else is going to tell you all the things that they want out of the language. And then you're just going to do it. And so that was my entire idea. Now mind you, and I feel like this is a very big, mind you. 363 00:39:24.750 --> 00:39:32.100 Jessie Sams: The clients ended up because it's not like I know people who are publishing stuff. So they really ended up being friends or friends of friends who were like oh yeah 364 00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:46.890 Jessie Sams: I have this vague idea that maybe someday I could chase down and so like in some of them had no idea that they ever intend on chasing down. It was just like, oh, here, here's a thing that they can build the language for even though it's just me making stuff up right now. 365 00:39:48.150 --> 00:39:50.490 Jessie Sams: For instance, my sister was one of the clients so 366 00:39:53.070 --> 00:39:56.880 Jessie Sams: So, you know, set people up with somebody outside the university to work with. 367 00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:10.830 Jessie Sams: But yeah, I guess that was not a good move. It wasn't. By the way, I still didn't really know the LCS existed, the language creation society existed until I was working on the 2013 course. 368 00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:12.600 Jessie Sams: So that's the first time I became aware 369 00:40:13.110 --> 00:40:15.390 David J. Peterson: You're terrible at advertising. Nobody knows you exist. 370 00:40:16.710 --> 00:40:23.490 Jessie Sams: I found them randomly online. So yes, that was but the class itself, by the way, went very well. 371 00:40:25.740 --> 00:40:30.840 David J. Peterson: Well, so, by the way, you had separately told me about that. The faculty 372 00:40:31.980 --> 00:40:40.980 David J. Peterson: Learning Community thing that you were doing never put two and two together, but it's like it seems obvious and totally organic that that is how you came up with that idea. 373 00:40:41.520 --> 00:41:01.680 David J. Peterson: And it was a really good and really solid idea in anybody who told you that that was a bad idea was probably, you know, just an asshole who had no right to say anything. I'm proud. Your pedagogical process. I don't know why anybody would 374 00:41:03.060 --> 00:41:03.780 Jessie Sams: Well, thank you. 375 00:41:06.090 --> 00:41:07.530 Jessie Sams: Apology accepted, David. 376 00:41:08.040 --> 00:41:09.270 David J. Peterson: Yes. All right. 377 00:41:10.410 --> 00:41:12.210 David J. Peterson: Happily given well 378 00:41:12.630 --> 00:41:22.230 David J. Peterson: You know, it's, it's a very difficult thing to evaluate new information right without having 379 00:41:23.460 --> 00:41:28.410 David J. Peterson: Without having the proper background and I feel like that's also true. 380 00:41:29.580 --> 00:41:34.860 David J. Peterson: Because we've talked separately about music. It's also true about music. There's a lot of music, where I've heard it for the first time. 381 00:41:35.430 --> 00:41:41.700 David J. Peterson: And immediately rejected it. I didn't like it didn't sound like anything that I could wrap my ears around 382 00:41:42.390 --> 00:41:56.790 David J. Peterson: But then when I listened to the context of where that music was coming from and listen to other artists and listen to this. And that's not suddenly I could place it and really appreciate it. Like, I know that that happened to me with 383 00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:58.500 David J. Peterson: What's it 384 00:42:00.240 --> 00:42:03.720 David J. Peterson: With punk music, which was a very, very hard sell for me. 385 00:42:04.740 --> 00:42:06.300 David J. Peterson: Very hard sell for me. 386 00:42:07.620 --> 00:42:18.270 David J. Peterson: I just heard it sounded like noise. It sounded unprofessional and like I'm somebody who was coming from like the head of like 80s arena rock which is like the most 387 00:42:18.990 --> 00:42:28.770 David J. Peterson: Over the top professionally produced music that there is. And so it's like this sounded so stripped down. And so, like, I mean, they weren't even singing. Well, I was like, how do you listen to this. 388 00:42:29.370 --> 00:42:40.200 David J. Peterson: And then it's like, you know, you listen more you get the background, get the energy and suddenly it's like okay, I understand how you're supposed to listen to this now. So like my background. 389 00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:41.190 David J. Peterson: When 390 00:42:41.550 --> 00:42:53.340 David J. Peterson: When you contacted the LCS was first, you know, of course, I started as a language creator and thinking I was the first one to ever do it for fun, and then reluctantly found others and assumed I was better than all of them. 391 00:42:54.570 --> 00:43:03.660 David J. Peterson: eventually learned that I was not better than any of them and started to learn how to be a better con later. But, but, yeah, something that truly 392 00:43:04.530 --> 00:43:22.140 David J. Peterson: Truly shocked and disappointed me was how many con Langer's talked about how secretive. They had to be about creating languages and how how their friends and family anytime they opened up to them rejected them. 393 00:43:23.310 --> 00:43:28.860 David J. Peterson: I forget if I ever told you this but Doug ball when he was a Stanford when he was a graduate student at Stanford. 394 00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:44.700 David J. Peterson: There was a mother who contacted him randomly because I don't know maybe you gave a talk or something from the area. She heard that he had was created created languages and she said her daughter who was like I don't know 11 or 12 395 00:43:45.180 --> 00:43:48.090 David J. Peterson: Had been doing that and was wondering if he would meet with her. 396 00:43:48.750 --> 00:43:55.410 David J. Peterson: And he did like he went to their home and she showed him what she was doing gave her some encouragement tips. 397 00:43:55.920 --> 00:44:07.980 David J. Peterson: And it became very clear to Doug that what happened was this this mother was just honestly looked at what her daughter was doing and didn't and was probably wondering if she should take her to a psychologist. 398 00:44:08.520 --> 00:44:10.980 David J. Peterson: Like, yeah, it's like 399 00:44:11.670 --> 00:44:19.380 David J. Peterson: After meeting with Doug, I mean it's a bizarre Philip. Nevertheless, he was a PhD candidate you know at Stanford University had been doing this. 400 00:44:20.700 --> 00:44:32.670 David J. Peterson: Just kind of seeing her interact with them and seeing the questions that he asked and seeing that you know he was somebody with this life together. It made her feel better. Like, that's what her mother needed just like 401 00:44:32.940 --> 00:44:41.370 David J. Peterson: Okay, there's nothing wrong with her. She's, she's okay she can do this. And, but, like, literally. That's what that was and 402 00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:46.950 David J. Peterson: And that's the type of thing that that happened, and that's that's the type of thing that a lot of con lingers we're sharing them with 403 00:44:47.310 --> 00:44:56.610 David J. Peterson: Older complainers people that at their time. We're in there like 50s and 60s and talking about how still, they don't share their work with anybody on the list. 404 00:44:57.870 --> 00:45:06.840 David J. Peterson: And I really took that to heart because of how opposite. My experience was where I started an assumed everything I was doing was magnificent. And everybody should let me 405 00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:21.990 David J. Peterson: And so, like, you know, as we went on and did the, the, you know, LCC one and then found at the LCS I just I carried that with me for so long. I really, really, really wanted to make sure that type of thing. Never happened again. 406 00:45:22.230 --> 00:45:33.360 David J. Peterson: You know, and so I became very, very possessive of the coddling and community and coddling in general. And so then you send an email that was super professional 407 00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:45.390 David J. Peterson: And super self assured and just saying this is the thing that I'm doing. And I was wondering if you could help, you know, help me with that and I was just like chair. Yeah. 408 00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:54.720 David J. Peterson: How dare you coming from out of nowhere with everything that we had built. How dare you. 409 00:45:57.690 --> 00:46:00.390 David J. Peterson: And you know, I just didn't know the context. 410 00:46:00.810 --> 00:46:15.090 David J. Peterson: I didn't have the context and that's and it's it's hard to sit. You know when you're in a position like that to really sit down and say, Okay, tell me, tell me everything. Tell me all the background so I can really understand why this is happening. 411 00:46:16.650 --> 00:46:22.290 David J. Peterson: And you know if if I had done that maybe things would have gone differently. But, you know, 412 00:46:23.850 --> 00:46:32.040 David J. Peterson: I didn't. And so I made a very bad impression. And anyway, but then you brought a whole host of students with you to LCC five anyway. 413 00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:33.000 Jessie Sams: Yes. 414 00:46:33.270 --> 00:46:49.140 David J. Peterson: Which was incredible. You brought a poster. You did a presentation. It was it was it was extraordinary. And so, yeah, that was, that was a really cool thing anyway. So we let me see if I can circle back to any of the topics that I was hoping to 415 00:46:52.290 --> 00:46:53.970 David J. Peterson: Well, actually we did kind of do that. That's cool. 416 00:46:57.720 --> 00:46:57.960 Huh. 417 00:46:59.550 --> 00:47:02.070 David J. Peterson: How do you even approach that so 418 00:47:03.270 --> 00:47:03.570 David J. Peterson: I 419 00:47:04.770 --> 00:47:07.320 David J. Peterson: Little bit more background, my 420 00:47:09.540 --> 00:47:12.360 David J. Peterson: My relationship with linguistics has always been a little 421 00:47:13.530 --> 00:47:17.640 David J. Peterson: A little prot I guess because 422 00:47:18.750 --> 00:47:24.060 David J. Peterson: At the beginning, I never really took linguistics. Seriously. It was just something I did for fun, because I knew 423 00:47:24.060 --> 00:47:34.200 David J. Peterson: That my serious life school was was to be a writer was to be an English teacher in English professor either an English teacher or English professor somewhere in there. 424 00:47:35.040 --> 00:47:47.340 David J. Peterson: Literature was going to be my life linguistics with something that fun something fun that I did on the site. And of course, I started coddling you not afterwards. So it was it was both my professional fun and my my hobby fun 425 00:47:47.970 --> 00:48:03.630 David J. Peterson: But nothing that was ever going to be serious and so I rarely took any of the courses. Seriously, even though I enjoyed them and then there was, you know, some tension there and that I remember the first person that I ever told about 426 00:48:04.680 --> 00:48:19.680 David J. Peterson: Two people there were two people that I was I was trying to tell that I was creating my own language. The first was a GSR that I had for cognitive science had a rose Jones, who was kind of like a friend acquaintance. Now she's a writer. She was a GSA at Berkeley. 427 00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:25.950 David J. Peterson: And I tried to tell her about, you know, this new project that I had. And she said, 428 00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:34.440 David J. Peterson: I have too many of my own personal projects right now and too much going on professionally. So I just can't talk about anything new right now and just completely shut me down, which, you know, 429 00:48:35.010 --> 00:48:45.060 David J. Peterson: I have to respect that is especially as somebody who's totally the opposite. And we'll just say, oh yeah, whatever, you know, and then I and then I get too much. And then, you know, 430 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:48.000 David J. Peterson: Why is it, letting things fall by the wayside. Yeah, I respect. 431 00:48:50.610 --> 00:48:55.290 David J. Peterson: The second person I told us john McWhorter you know I was taking his pitches and Creoles class. 432 00:48:56.790 --> 00:49:03.450 David J. Peterson: And which was, which was transformative in a number of ways. By the way, that was fall 2001 and 433 00:49:03.510 --> 00:49:05.820 David J. Peterson: In fact, I had his class on September 11 434 00:49:07.410 --> 00:49:10.230 David J. Peterson: Yeah, that's kind of the end of that day for me but 435 00:49:11.370 --> 00:49:21.360 David J. Peterson: I told him you know that I, you know, was was creating my own language, and he laughed at me and said, have you been messing around with Esperanto. And it's like, 436 00:49:23.130 --> 00:49:26.970 David J. Peterson: First of all, I had taken it Esperanto course at Berkeley. But, you know, 437 00:49:28.110 --> 00:49:35.850 David J. Peterson: Like those are those are my first interactions with anybody in the world linguistics and language creation and it was always an uphill battle the entire time. 438 00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:47.580 David J. Peterson: I actually convinced john McWhorter to let me run a a con line experiment for his course in lieu of doing a research paper because I hate doing research. 439 00:49:49.710 --> 00:49:51.660 David J. Peterson: And he allowed it. That was nice. 440 00:49:53.880 --> 00:50:01.770 David J. Peterson: It was great. I got an A minus on the paper like I did. I put a lot of work like this. He's like, yes. Yeah, you did good work. But, you know, not perfect. 441 00:50:03.150 --> 00:50:05.340 David J. Peterson: Thank you. Appreciate that. 442 00:50:05.550 --> 00:50:07.170 Jessie Sams: I can always I can always do better. 443 00:50:07.620 --> 00:50:07.890 Yeah. 444 00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:10.650 David J. Peterson: And 445 00:50:11.820 --> 00:50:22.560 David J. Peterson: Let's see. After that we, you know, is when I was the president of the the undergraduate linguistics club. We put together Symposium, and I gave a talk on con Langley. 446 00:50:23.340 --> 00:50:30.030 David J. Peterson: With you know number of the departments people in attendance were essentially the entire talk was kind of justifying it 447 00:50:30.720 --> 00:50:46.620 David J. Peterson: As something that could be useful to linguistics and relevant and I didn't understand why it was getting so much pushback. You did. And of course, by the way, later you read that article with about john key hadas article in The New Yorker. 448 00:50:47.430 --> 00:50:48.330 Jessie Sams: Oh yeah, the 449 00:50:48.810 --> 00:50:50.340 Jessie Sams: Yeah, the article, and it's cool. 450 00:50:50.790 --> 00:50:51.720 David J. Peterson: Yeah yeah 451 00:50:51.750 --> 00:50:51.990 David J. Peterson: Yeah. 452 00:50:52.230 --> 00:50:57.480 David J. Peterson: So you can see what you know his which was like cops reaction was to him. 453 00:50:58.860 --> 00:50:59.160 Jessie Sams: Right. 454 00:51:00.060 --> 00:51:02.940 David J. Peterson: I got got George Lake off back at TEDx Berkeley. 455 00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:09.180 David J. Peterson: I put his quotes up on the screen destroyed anyway. 456 00:51:10.680 --> 00:51:14.040 David J. Peterson: He's not gonna listen. Oh look, he doesn't care. You ever met George Lake off. 457 00:51:14.700 --> 00:51:15.120 Jessie Sams: No. 458 00:51:15.570 --> 00:51:18.180 David J. Peterson: You didn't get a single shit what anybody thinks about anything anyway. 459 00:51:20.700 --> 00:51:22.440 David J. Peterson: Never less brilliant guy. Alright, so 460 00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:30.780 David J. Peterson: Anyway, especially at Berkeley. I met with a lot of resistance in linguistics. And so it was always kind of an adversarial relationship. 461 00:51:31.290 --> 00:51:33.960 David J. Peterson: Counseling and linguistics, where I felt like I was always 462 00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:44.940 David J. Peterson: Trying to justify what it was that we did, and then not just like say, you know, let us be but also this is something that can be pedagogically useful. 463 00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:45.840 David J. Peterson: To you. 464 00:51:47.190 --> 00:51:47.850 David J. Peterson: And 465 00:51:49.260 --> 00:52:01.290 David J. Peterson: It was just pushed back at every step. How do you feel about, you know, since you are a part of the academic linguistics community. How do you feel about that relationship, you know, linguistics, and con lightning. 466 00:52:02.250 --> 00:52:06.060 Jessie Sams: As well yes very positively. 467 00:52:08.190 --> 00:52:08.370 Jessie Sams: You 468 00:52:09.450 --> 00:52:10.650 Jessie Sams: Know, I actually 469 00:52:11.790 --> 00:52:13.860 Jessie Sams: I had never considered using it. 470 00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:21.270 Jessie Sams: Yet, well then again I was still a new teacher anyway because littered that spring semester of 2010 whenever I did that. 471 00:52:21.600 --> 00:52:35.520 Jessie Sams: Morphine exercise again only my second semester of actually teaching linguistics classes. So I'm still new but like I don't think the idea would have come to me on my own necessarily to even think about bringing this thing I do for fun. 472 00:52:36.570 --> 00:52:41.490 Jessie Sams: Into the classroom, maybe eventually, it would have but it wouldn't happen right them. 473 00:52:42.900 --> 00:52:54.570 Jessie Sams: On top of that, I already knew the connection anyway because when I had decided to create the language, my first language in 2008 I 474 00:52:55.800 --> 00:53:05.610 Jessie Sams: I was hesitant before that, because I had this story idea and I was going with it. And it wasn't until like one day, I was like, Okay, I'm going to need a language for this and I stopped. And I'm like, 475 00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:19.890 Jessie Sams: Who better to create a language and somebody who does nothing but study language like it just suddenly like of course like I have the training I have, you know what I need to do to actually make this real because you know I was remembering my failed childhood experiment of 476 00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:21.300 Jessie Sams: Yet, but was not a language. 477 00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:37.890 Jessie Sams: And so that became really thrilling for me. So like I already knew that. Like, you really do need some knowledge of linguistics, even if it's informal, whatever. However, you get the knowledge you have to be aware of linguistics, to be able to do a good job creating a language. 478 00:53:39.420 --> 00:53:46.620 Jessie Sams: And so that connection was there. But again, it wasn't that the classroom connection wasn't there until I had done that exercise in the classroom. 479 00:53:47.520 --> 00:53:59.400 Jessie Sams: And like immediately I saw the students really came to life on that, more so than any other data sets because they got to create something they got to have fun with it. They were learning so much from it. 480 00:54:00.720 --> 00:54:01.920 Jessie Sams: That that's really like 481 00:54:03.390 --> 00:54:12.750 Jessie Sams: It just became clear to me that, quite frankly, and this is something I said in the 2013 LCC five. If you go back and find my my video it's out there on YouTube somewhere. 482 00:54:13.980 --> 00:54:21.720 Jessie Sams: My main point was, this is quite frankly, the best way to teach linguistics, because you see right away if students are understanding something 483 00:54:22.830 --> 00:54:32.760 Jessie Sams: Because when they have to actually not only create the pattern which is honestly the easier part right to say like, Oh, this, this prefix is going to do this thing fine like that could be a five minute thing. 484 00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:50.040 Jessie Sams: But then to actually apply that and apply it consistently that requires so much attentiveness and ability to really think through language and what it's doing. And so I mean my argument is that every program should 485 00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:56.760 Jessie Sams: Become like course. That's my argument, and I believe so firmly in it that 486 00:54:58.470 --> 00:55:12.840 Jessie Sams: When we so this year. I don't know that everybody knows this. I know David gnosis. But this year we we actually created a linguistics major and it's approved it's live, we actually have majors right now so very exciting first year on the books. 487 00:55:14.130 --> 00:55:20.550 Jessie Sams: But when we created that the capstone course for our majors is the invented languages class. 488 00:55:21.870 --> 00:55:26.880 Jessie Sams: And so every single major will have to take it to get the degree 489 00:55:27.330 --> 00:55:32.550 Jessie Sams: And that's how strongly I feel about it because it just, to me, it really shows that 490 00:55:32.820 --> 00:55:40.980 Jessie Sams: That ability to understand aspects of topology to understand what patterns actually show up in natural languages, try to mimic that to the best of your ability. 491 00:55:41.340 --> 00:55:45.750 Jessie Sams: And to apply it like that. I can't say that enough. Like, how else are you going to apply it. 492 00:55:46.410 --> 00:55:59.670 Jessie Sams: Outside of learning language and showing your demonstration of look I know how to use this this thing because I learned the language and can speak it now. Outside of that, like, it's really hard in a linguistics classroom to fully demonstrate that understanding and 493 00:56:01.260 --> 00:56:04.980 Jessie Sams: I also think it's just, it's so much fun for students. 494 00:56:05.490 --> 00:56:06.720 Jessie Sams: That I 495 00:56:08.340 --> 00:56:14.190 Jessie Sams: Basically this class is probably one of the only classes I teach where I give no minimums. 496 00:56:15.420 --> 00:56:23.340 Jessie Sams: Or maximums really I just say write your paper and you need to have these things in it. And the last time I offered it 497 00:56:24.060 --> 00:56:42.930 Jessie Sams: So in 2019 when I collected papers at the end of the semester. Again, nothing about like how many pages, it needs. It's just here's like your checklist of the things that you need to have in it, the average length single spaced of the final paper I received from undergraduate students 498 00:56:43.710 --> 00:56:44.880 Jessie Sams: Was 19 pages. 499 00:56:45.900 --> 00:56:46.920 David J. Peterson: Oh my goodness. 500 00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:49.500 Jessie Sams: Yeah. And so, like, That's you. 501 00:56:49.770 --> 00:56:53.490 Jessie Sams: On Instagram. Like I posted these giant stacks of like 502 00:56:53.490 --> 00:57:04.740 Jessie Sams: Conlon grammars. It's like literally giant stacks, because the students are so excited that I say create 10 words they give me 30 because they're like, oh, I spent all weekend on this. 503 00:57:05.070 --> 00:57:14.070 Jessie Sams: And so like I never have to ask them to do work really, it's the students are legitimately excited to be diving into their work and get lost in the work and 504 00:57:14.550 --> 00:57:25.260 Jessie Sams: It's like it's the best part of both worlds. Because you're learning something you're doing something very real, but at the same time you're being super creative and getting to just invent things and like that to me is 505 00:57:26.520 --> 00:57:39.120 Jessie Sams: An amazing combination and i again i will say it again, seven years later I think every program needs the online course every linguistics program. Anyway, so that's that's how I view that relationship. 506 00:57:41.460 --> 00:57:43.500 David J. Peterson: We need to make this podcast more famous 507 00:57:48.060 --> 00:57:53.340 David J. Peterson: Maybe, maybe, maybe we can just kind of email this episode to other linguistics departments. 508 00:57:55.650 --> 00:57:58.350 Jessie Sams: Specific specifically the ones of the names, you've mentioned 509 00:57:59.520 --> 00:58:06.240 David J. Peterson: Know, I mean, come on. They, they have they have their they actually do have link listing 510 00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:14.490 David J. Peterson: I'm sorry Conlon courses so that that's that's the good thing in the pet, and the only contributors are ones that actually taught online courses. 511 00:58:15.510 --> 00:58:22.770 David J. Peterson: Which is which is why they were invited to contribute. And so that was that was why I said Doug ball Jesse stands where are you 512 00:58:23.340 --> 00:58:24.330 Jessie Sams: Right, anybody 513 00:58:25.590 --> 00:58:30.150 David J. Peterson: It's okay, it's okay anyway but um yeah and that's 514 00:58:31.770 --> 00:58:33.870 David J. Peterson: It. And that was the thing especially back then. 515 00:58:35.190 --> 00:58:46.980 David J. Peterson: Especially, years and years ago, especially when you first email the thing when I started hearing about online courses. I was so upset because these were by and large courses taught by people who were not gone lingers 516 00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:51.240 David J. Peterson: Right, and who I could tell 517 00:58:52.350 --> 00:59:01.650 David J. Peterson: Took a rather a clinical approach to this whole thing and saw this is, you know, an interesting this is an interesting outcome if we do this for these students 518 00:59:03.930 --> 00:59:18.120 David J. Peterson: They really need. What I really wanted, though, was some sort of Professor like you, because that's the type of Professor that needs to be teaching these courses. And not only that, especially like 519 00:59:19.950 --> 00:59:28.500 David J. Peterson: At a school like SF bay that gets a lot more, you know, students from within the immediate community, you know, 520 00:59:28.560 --> 00:59:33.780 David J. Peterson: Right. That's how that's how you get people to know about coddling 521 00:59:34.290 --> 00:59:43.890 David J. Peterson: Like, probably not producing a lot of lifelong future coddling or so hopefully some. But of course that's the way it is with any course that you teach anything 522 00:59:44.310 --> 00:59:44.820 Jessie Sams: Right, right. 523 00:59:45.540 --> 00:59:56.250 David J. Peterson: But it's suddenly it's just it's a it's a very positive interaction and they know a lot more loads more than most other people and they can share it. 524 00:59:57.660 --> 01:00:01.020 David J. Peterson: And that's, that's how that's how things get bigger that's helping spread 525 01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:12.000 David J. Peterson: Yeah, that was, yeah. So your course. It's just probably exactly what I would have hoped for. I just didn't know that. 526 01:00:15.990 --> 01:00:18.330 Jessie Sams: You didn't have the context, it's okay. 527 01:00:18.570 --> 01:00:20.460 Jessie Sams: Yeah, only had bad experiences. 528 01:00:20.910 --> 01:00:29.130 David J. Peterson: Yep. Okay. So, um, gosh, I see that we're approaching the hour we started we started a little late. Right. 529 01:00:29.430 --> 01:00:37.680 Jessie Sams: We did if i i think we have like five to seven minutes left to actually hit the hour if I'm remembering correctly. 530 01:00:38.190 --> 01:00:43.650 David J. Peterson: Quick question. Just a little timer up in the corner. Does that tell you how long it's been recording or how long the zoom has been going 531 01:00:45.150 --> 01:00:49.770 Jessie Sams: I'm timer in the corner. I don't have a timer in the corner. 532 01:00:50.130 --> 01:00:51.210 David J. Peterson: Seriously, it 533 01:00:51.420 --> 01:00:52.200 David J. Peterson: Acquired screen. 534 01:00:52.380 --> 01:00:53.490 David J. Peterson: Upper right hand side. 535 01:00:55.230 --> 01:00:55.860 Jessie Sams: Nope. 536 01:00:57.240 --> 01:00:57.510 David J. Peterson: Really 537 01:00:58.860 --> 01:00:59.460 Jessie Sams: Really 538 01:01:00.690 --> 01:01:04.320 Jessie Sams: Maybe it's because I'm the host and it's just taking care of by now. 539 01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:12.210 David J. Peterson: Maybe, but but here all all all I'll show you know I'll even circle at their center. 540 01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:16.110 Jessie Sams: I'm like, I'm looking all around like Where else should I be looking 541 01:01:16.950 --> 01:01:26.520 David J. Peterson: Yeah, that's okay. Well, anyway, it says an hour and it's about saying our nine minutes. So I don't know. That's how long the recording been going through how long the zoom it been going it's 542 01:01:26.820 --> 01:01:27.690 Jessie Sams: That would be how long 543 01:01:27.780 --> 01:01:31.680 Jessie Sams: The zoom cast. Yeah, we were we were chatting a while before we actually 544 01:01:32.280 --> 01:01:47.610 David J. Peterson: Got it. Okay, there, there are a number of their number of topics that you brought up that I think could be explored further, it would be fun to do that at a later time, if it makes sense. 545 01:01:49.290 --> 01:01:51.600 David J. Peterson: But in case it doesn't come up 546 01:01:52.710 --> 01:02:01.680 David J. Peterson: Something that I have found truly incredible so like, you know, I've been to the Wellesley course which you may have heard about right. 547 01:02:02.130 --> 01:02:03.330 Jessie Sams: Yeah, Carpenter. 548 01:02:03.540 --> 01:02:20.250 David J. Peterson: Angela carpet or teachers, which, which is of course an all female course is what else please still an all girls school but something that did strike me though visiting your classes over the years, was that they were overwhelmingly female 549 01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:29.370 David J. Peterson: And the one of the biggest problems within the calling and community is that starting from the very beginning, it was overwhelmingly male 550 01:02:32.130 --> 01:02:38.760 David J. Peterson: both online and then once we started to get it once we started getting together in person. 551 01:02:40.380 --> 01:02:45.330 David J. Peterson: And and i i have some theories as to why it started that way. 552 01:02:46.410 --> 01:02:53.970 David J. Peterson: But of course, there's no reason for it to be that way. And there's no excuse for it being that way now. 553 01:02:55.260 --> 01:03:09.480 David J. Peterson: And that was, that was something that I've been struggling with that. I feel like I cannot possibly I mean I can help. But I can't, like, do anything directly about it because you know what I mean. 554 01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:11.880 David J. Peterson: And so 555 01:03:13.620 --> 01:03:20.700 David J. Peterson: Whatever it is about your course that the tracks female students, it would be nice to know that like 556 01:03:20.940 --> 01:03:21.360 Jessie Sams: Okay. 557 01:03:21.540 --> 01:03:22.500 Jessie Sams: But yeah, but 558 01:03:22.560 --> 01:03:25.830 Jessie Sams: But you gotta back up and think about my larger student population. 559 01:03:26.580 --> 01:03:31.500 Jessie Sams: Okay, because if you recall, you also visited all my other classrooms. 560 01:03:31.770 --> 01:03:33.660 Jessie Sams: And maybe you weren't so aware 561 01:03:33.870 --> 01:03:37.890 Jessie Sams: But did you notice that almost every single class I teach is overwhelmingly female 562 01:03:38.970 --> 01:03:43.470 David J. Peterson: I didn't notice that. But, you know, reviewing i think i could notice that 563 01:03:44.070 --> 01:03:44.400 David J. Peterson: Yeah. 564 01:03:45.060 --> 01:04:00.300 Jessie Sams: Like there. Yeah. There are times where I'll have you know 20 students and not a single male student or like one. And part of that is the program within which we're situated. Part of that is the SF Bay campus itself, we have 565 01:04:01.530 --> 01:04:08.190 Jessie Sams: I forget the exact percentages and they they kind of vary, but it's usually around 60 to 65% female students 566 01:04:09.420 --> 01:04:25.290 Jessie Sams: And a lot of the male students are in forestry and biology and whatnot. And so you do definitely see that divide the classic gender divide that academia has been out for a long time struggling to to combat. 567 01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:38.910 Jessie Sams: And so I am starting to see a lot more male students in my classes as I'm getting more from outside of the programs where I teach. And honestly, to me, that's my 568 01:04:39.090 --> 01:04:44.250 Jessie Sams: Student diversity, I get more excited by looking at the list of majors in my class. 569 01:04:44.640 --> 01:04:49.380 Jessie Sams: Then thinking about. So I'm like, yes, fa, I'm going to have, you know, probably more female than male students 570 01:04:50.430 --> 01:05:02.400 Jessie Sams: But the fact that so many now are from majors all over campus and I'm getting like, you know, computer science, I've got somebody from biology coming in somebody from Art somebody from history like I've got 571 01:05:02.550 --> 01:05:04.680 Jessie Sams: All these students coming from all over 572 01:05:05.430 --> 01:05:18.360 Jessie Sams: To take it. And so, that to me is like, that's targeting into something even more exciting because they're going to go back to their academic communities which are so different from any language courses or anything like that with 573 01:05:19.050 --> 01:05:23.130 Jessie Sams: You know more information about Khan linking. And so I find that really exciting. 574 01:05:23.700 --> 01:05:36.360 Jessie Sams: But yeah, it's not so I don't know that I can address that because it's not. It's also hard to address because a female professor is more likely to get female students, I believe, in general, I could be wrong about that. 575 01:05:37.020 --> 01:05:43.590 Jessie Sams: But based on sort of followings of, you know, people who feel more comfortable doing a lot more work with me. 576 01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:54.990 Jessie Sams: That tends to be again that sort of gender divide. So it's unfortunate. It really is unfortunate, but that also means that I can't really say that there's something 577 01:05:54.990 --> 01:06:00.510 Jessie Sams: True magical that I do to draw them in. I will say that I do work extra hard 578 01:06:01.470 --> 01:06:09.360 Jessie Sams: With the female students that I have in the online courses to try to get them to share their work more freely to get them into the community so 579 01:06:10.500 --> 01:06:16.740 Jessie Sams: Not that I don't convince try to convince my male students to do the same. But I know that I am very aware of 580 01:06:18.780 --> 01:06:24.210 Jessie Sams: A lot of students not wanting or being confident enough to share their work so 581 01:06:25.230 --> 01:06:31.110 David J. Peterson: Yeah, by the way, anytime anytime they want to give me something for feeling well. I'll take it. 582 01:06:31.740 --> 01:06:33.510 Jessie Sams: Yeah, I know you will. 583 01:06:35.340 --> 01:06:41.580 Jessie Sams: I have begged I'm seriously beg to students. So many times to be like, just send it. It's like you have to do, just send it 584 01:06:43.410 --> 01:06:49.380 Jessie Sams: But, you know, I'm working on it. And I have a plan for for how to change that next semester. I'll tell you about it later. 585 01:06:50.130 --> 01:06:53.220 David J. Peterson: Cool, alright. Exciting. Okay. Yeah. 586 01:06:54.780 --> 01:06:59.100 David J. Peterson: Of course, the reason I brought that up is because I, I would love to see more 587 01:07:00.270 --> 01:07:04.560 David J. Peterson: I'd love to see a more diverse space in the online coddling world. 588 01:07:06.030 --> 01:07:24.810 David J. Peterson: You know, it's, it's hard. It's hard because if you if you have a forum where everybody can just share a certain type of personality is going to be more comfortable sharing. And the more they do that, the harder it becomes for others with a different personality type to share 589 01:07:26.580 --> 01:07:27.750 David J. Peterson: And yeah. 590 01:07:29.250 --> 01:07:33.030 David J. Peterson: It's the same problem with Facebook. And the reason why it's destroyed America but anyway. 591 01:07:34.950 --> 01:07:40.860 Jessie Sams: And why I quit because, see, that's what certain personalities. Do they just say this is too much. Goodbye. 592 01:07:41.340 --> 01:07:44.820 David J. Peterson: Yeah, and the date of this podcast airs, by the way. Me too. So 593 01:07:46.590 --> 01:07:55.830 Jessie Sams: Welcome to the club. Well, you will have started the process. It's still a like 30 day process where they actually delete it and they keep sending you things like, Are you sure you sure you want to delete it. 594 01:07:56.730 --> 01:08:00.480 Jessie Sams: It's still there for like 30 days so that way if you come back and reactivate it 595 01:08:00.570 --> 01:08:02.640 Jessie Sams: Immediately. So just be aware of that. 596 01:08:03.150 --> 01:08:21.930 David J. Peterson: Right. Yeah. All right. Well, um, anyway, we didn't, we didn't like hit on everything, but we we hit on a lot of things. So, but I was, I was just really glad to hear even more about about about your course and and its history because 597 01:08:22.980 --> 01:08:31.080 David J. Peterson: It really is something special and truly unique, not just within con lagging but within specifically within coddling pedagogy. 598 01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:38.670 David J. Peterson: It's, it's really tremendous work you've done. And so I think it's great to hear more. Thank you. 599 01:08:41.580 --> 01:08:45.510 David J. Peterson: Okay, so then do you usually sign off. 600 01:08:46.950 --> 01:08:50.820 Jessie Sams: Usually what I say at this point is, do you have any final words, David. 601 01:08:52.380 --> 01:08:52.860 David J. Peterson: Oh, 602 01:08:53.940 --> 01:08:54.540 Jessie Sams: Great. 603 01:08:57.390 --> 01:09:04.680 Jessie Sams: And usually you have a reaction like that or something along the lines of, oh, I meant to prepare something for this one, but I did it. 604 01:09:05.130 --> 01:09:06.870 Jessie Sams: And and then I take back over 605 01:09:06.900 --> 01:09:09.090 Jessie Sams: So that's usually how it goes. Is that 606 01:09:09.180 --> 01:09:11.130 Jessie Sams: Is that the status quo is that today, too. 607 01:09:11.580 --> 01:09:13.200 David J. Peterson: Yeah, I think that's pretty much today as well. 608 01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:28.200 Jessie Sams: Excellent. Well, then in that case. Thank you for listening. Everyone who made it through this hour with us and we are happy to have you as our patrons and for eventually when when this is to the wider world. Happy to have you as a listener. 609 01:09:29.100 --> 01:09:36.570 Jessie Sams: And stay grammar and we look forward to talking to you next month. Although David is doing this to me. Does that mean you do have something 610 01:09:36.990 --> 01:09:43.170 David J. Peterson: I just wanted to say welcome to our new patron Curtis fry. It's, it's, it's good to. It's good to have you on board. 611 01:09:43.830 --> 01:09:50.220 Jessie Sams: Yay welcome Curtis. Right. Okay. So, and with that everybody stay grammar and we'll catch you next month.