(00:01) Jessie: Okay so we are on a cloud server. We are recording.

(00:04) David: Cloud! Cloud!

(00:07) Jessie: It feels good. It feels so good. Yeah, so the internet issues have continued and I decided that it was better to just come into my office, than worry about getting kicked off every five minutes and having our patrons having to listen to a podcast two minutes at a time and then robot voice. So, yeah, here we are. Oh, yeah. Patrons can't see, I'm in my school office. I'm on campus right now--very lonely here, no one else's here.

(00:40) David: Since since they can't see. It's really cool how you decorated with your social security number in the background. Can you, like, narrate for them?

(00:48) Jessie: It's, it's just all over. Well, I mean, I think you should narrate. You see it's behind me, clearly you can provide that information.

(00:59) David: By the way, I want to share this tidbit because I think it happened while you were having an internet hiccup. Yesterday in our stream, but I forget like you were off and I somehow mentioned that I--oh yes, I was going to turn back notifications on, right?

(01:16) Jessie: Uh huh.

(01:17) David: So that when you called I was able to answer on my computer; otherwise, I wouldn't be able to answer, right?

(01:23) Jessie: Right.

(01:24) David: I turned notifications back on and I mentioned, you know, I hope nobody sends me a text or anything with like, you know, their Social Security number in it. And like not even 30 seconds later, a notification pops up. And it's from Erin and it says, "Hey, just as a reminder, this is my social security number." And she puts out a big number. "And it matches our address 123 Fake Street."

(01:46) Jessie: You have a good woman.

(01:49) David: It was so--the timing was so good, that's great.

(01:52) Jessie: That's awesome. That is awesome. Okay, so first, I've just started talking as if--well, apparently patrons, you need to hear all of this because I've already started talking to you. Yeah. And so therefore, let me belatedly say, "Welcome to LangTime Chat!" This is episode three if we're counting, and we are, so it's very exciting. And today's theme: Inspiration. We need some jazz hands with that. So first, let's just, you know, inspiration, a general way-- Thinking "inspiring" for like getting into a work mode or work groove. What inspires you?

(02:40) David: 100% music. Absolutely has to be music, which is one of the reasons that doing something like LangTime Studio or even just doing the things where I record myself working. It's why they're--they're so artificial in a way because, of course, we can't be listening to music. I actually did- I actually did try once with headphones. I tried to listen to music while live streaming. It just didn't work as well, like, because you can't be sure of the volume of your voice and, you know,

(03:19) Jessie: You start shouting

(03:21) David: Yeah. That's like, you know, also, I like to sing along. But so it's like, so yeah, it's not like- it's not like what I'm working- like when I'm on my own because music is going on a hundred percent of time. I got on this power metal kick in... I want to say 2013. Okay. 2013... may have been 2012. I don't know. But I started listening to power metal. And then, in particular, Finnish power metal, and that has just kind of carried me through for the past seven years. It's been- it's been so hard to kick, like the things I would listen to in constant rotation, you know, would be like David Bowie, of course, because, because I love David Bowie and then reggae. I loved reggae and also West African-I don't know if you want to call it pop or jazz, but, you know, both-- like things like Fela Kuti and then also like Baaba Maal and Habib Kwoité. Loved it, loved it. And so--oh wait, sorry. Go ahead.

(04:44) Jessie: Well, I didn't mean to cut you off from your list. I just, it makes me smile because I love how your tastes differ from mine so much and I am just so basic. You're like, "What kind of music do you listen to?" and I'm thinking, like, OneRepublic love them. Um-

(05:04) David: Lot of greatest hits

(05:06) Jessie: Of course, because they're greatest for a reason, David. And Trans-Siberian orchestra, which you still can't get over but I adore listening to them.

(05:18) David: Well, I--well, it's because, well, it's because it seems so out of step with the rest of what you listen to. That's why like, Trans-Siberian Orchestra, like--if you are going to- if you're just going to put up two circles--the Jessie and the David circle--and you said one of these people listens to Trans-Siberian Orchestra. I'd say nine people out of 10 are going to put that with me. It was just, it kind of blew me away. It blew me away. It absolutely blew me away. It actually made me wonder why didn't you start listening to other bands that were similar.

(05:50) Jessie: That's a really good question. Part of it is probably just lack of exposure, because if I- I mean, I didn't necessarily go out of my way to discover artists. In general, that's just how I am. In general, I think, like, I don't go out of my way to discover a lot of new things in life, I don't think. You know, like, even like books, or authors. It's more like what is in my area and if it catches my attention. Then I'm introduced to it. And so, unless somebody actually introduces it to me, then I don't necessarily discover it. And so actually Trans-Siberian Orchestra was introduced to me when I was working at a music store back in grad school. Actually it was during undergrad. It was undergrad and I lived in Colorado every summer and worked at the Castle Rock outlet malls. And I worked at a music store there. And my boss at the time had said that he had told me about Trans-Siberian Orchestra, because we had this demo CD for Beethoven's Last Night. And he was telling me about him like, well, that sounds really cool. So I listened to it--fell in love with it, which is probably why it's still my favorite album of theirs. And he ended up actually giving me that album. So it was just sort of like this, "I love them," and then the first concert-- that next year I finally got to see them in concert-- and I've just been in love, ever since. But it was introduced to me. I don't know that I ever would--well, now, I probably would have because they have commercials on Hallmark channel, and, you know, I watch Hallmark so

(07:23) David: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

(07:26) Jessie: Shout out for Hallmark. So I probably would have at least heard of them by now, but I probably would not have had the love affair that I've had for--oh my gosh, 20 years now.

(07:36) David: Yeah, yeah, it's been like that.

(07:38) Jessie: We have been- we are able to say we were in college 20 years ago.

(07:44) David: Yep. 

(07:45) Jessie: Wow. Okay, that's

(07:47) David: That's a lot of life. That's, that's kind of nuts. Yeah, I was just, I was just talking yesterday to the undergraduate student group at Berkeley. And, and, specifically, I was, I was asking for help with something that we're planning for the graduates. And I was like, but I need some input from people who have graduated, you know, less than--and I did the math. I was like, oh, 17 years ago.

(08:14) Jessie: That's a lot of time.

(08:16) David: At which point I remark, "Yeah, the time, the period of time from since I graduated, it's almost ready to vote."

(08:24) Jessie: Oh my gosh, I think. And right now, it--well actually, it's this year--2020 is the year. Now we're we're crossing over that line of where the 21 year olds, because you know like if you go into a restaurant or a bar, there's that sign of you can't drink if you, you know, you have to be born before this date to drink and like just watching the years go backwards or go up really. It's so bizarre to me to think that next year, someone can legally drink, who was born in 2000 like that to me is like, how is that even possible. And that time is so trippy and that it was not at all where this conversation was supposed to go but there it is. Yeah.

(09:10) David: Well, we were inspired. Anyway, it's so wild to hear you describe the way that you approach like things like music because that's how I would describe somebody else as an insult.

(09:28) Jessie: But I embrace it. So you can't use it as an insult against me. Because I embrace that about myself. That's who I am.

(09:34) David: Look, so like with me, for example, I remember. Okay, this is the wildest story for how I got into this. I was already a big fan of metal. Let's just put it there. And that's like for me what for music. It was like the first thing in my life. It was like, you know, Beach Boys and Billy Joel right and then it was like the type of stuff that was played on the radio in the late 80s, early 90s, so like Enya, right

(09:59) Jessie: Love Enya.

(10:00) David: Orinoco Flow was big and popular at that time, then it was rap and I was strictly into rap, because of course that was hot at the time. And then after that I transitioned to like hard rock and metal where I stayed and then at [ROBOT VOICE {malfunction of video}]. A friend of mine had an apartment for a while where we would all go over to watch the NBA playoffs and stuff.

(10:29) Jessie: I'm gonna stop you for just a second. I'm gonna stop you. Because we did have a bit of a cutout in the middle of that sentence and well I can go back to the recording and clean things up. I don't want to miss something you said. It picks back up when you said one day at a friend's house. Okay. Before that it cut out in between, like when you were talking about your introduction to metal and then--sure, whatever happened there.

(10:51) David: Not important so at my friend's house--we would go over to watch the NBA playoffs. This is his apartment right. So we would all go and hang out. Two of our friends lived there and he was an IT manager at some sort of company and and he says, "Oh, Dave, I was meaning to play this for you. I thought you would like this." Because he said all of the computers- like what he had done that day- all of the computers have been hacked by somebody. And he was like, every single computer was just playing this and he put up an image of an eagle. It was like a, like an American Eagle or something and it had like a flashing background and it was playing a song that I had never heard before by a band that I had never heard of before. And this song was, was- it wasn't Eagle Fly Free. It was- well, anyway, it was by Stradivarius and it was I think it was Freedom by Stradivarius. Yes, it was Freedom by Stradivarius and I listened to the song. I was like "Oh my god, what happened? What happened? Where did this song come from?" It's like, because you know what it was like for me getting into metal in the 90s, right. This is when metal was in decline in the United States. Bands started doing experimental stuff. Metallica started releasing country songs and you know all this time stuff. Metal bands started either going underground or doing other things.

(12:25) Jessie: Right, was this when Michael Jordan decided to play baseball or was that...?

(12:29) David: It was- yes, it was exactly the same time. 

(12:31) Jessie: Very confusing time. Okay. Go on.

(12:33) David: And so, you know, grunge and rap were in ascendence. Grunge and hip hop and so, anyway, I- so, I look up this band because I'm like, you know, "What is this?" It's like my friend, Ashley was right. It's like "Dave, I knew you'd love this." And so I looked it up and it's this band called Stradivarius. I was like, Okay, I've never heard this band. Where are they from there from Finland. And then I look him up and they have like this huge discography, and they're hugely popular in Finland and I start- So I start you know with Napster or whatever the equivalent was at the time--probably LimeWire-- downloading some of their music. And I discovered that you know they have a lot of music that sounds really really good and it sounds like it belongs in the 80s and this is when I realized that metal- Basically it died in the US, but they found it at that point in time in places like Finland. Right. And they're like, this is the best thing ever. Let's just keep doing that. And so they just picked right on up. They didn't evolve. They were like, let's just make more of this. And it was amazing. And so then I went from, you know, that Finnish band to Night Wish, from Night Wish to Epica, from Epica to- I think I added Delane at that point. And then that was also when I found Sonata Arctica and Sonata Arctica led to, like, all of these other bands and this is how I do things so I appreciate and understand and accept that you need to be exposed to things. And what I'm hearing, what I believe you're saying is that you want me to put together some playlists for you.

(14:02) Jessie: We'll see- we'll see how much or musical tastes overlap when I

(14:07) David: Don't worry. I'm very clever when it comes to music.

(14:11) Jessie: Nice. It really cracks me up because that same sort of like attitude of, I don't know, insulting someone for having basic tastes. Sometimes, whatever. So,

(14:24) David: Sorry.

(14:26) Jessie: It's really funny because last night our internet died so hardcore like we could do anything so Will and I were like, we wanted to watch TV, but couldn't because everything's dead. So, we ended up. I just told him to go get a DVD and we would, you know, watch a movie old fashioned ways and old fashioned as in DVDs. Yeah. And he picked out Amadeus. Because as I mentioned

(14:55) David: Had you never seen it?

(14:56) Jessie: No, I had--he hadn't. So he'd never seen Amadeus before and he is, you know, as you may have caught in the live stream. The other day for the patrons who are listening. He plays cello and so he has gotten like really into classical music like way-- he knows way more than I do. And so it's really interesting to listen to him talk about it. So as we were watching he pauses the movie at one point to do a breakdown of composers and like who--how he ranks them and who his favorite is and why and all this. It's Vivaldi, in case you're wondering. Because apparently Vivaldi was very progressive I don't know what that means in terms of classical music, but he was. And so I had said, well, my favorite is Beethoven and my favorite piece by Beethoven is Moonlight Sonata and he stops and looks at me with all of the attitude of a teenage boy and was like, "Please tell me you're not one of those people that only knows the first movement." Now, because I actually do like Beethoven, and I really do like Moonlight Sonata. I was able to say, no, I actually, like I actually had bought a CD of the whole thing by a pianist and so like I had heard the entire thing. And so I know the entire piece, not just the famous first movement. But it just cracked me up because he was just like, "I get so tired of how people say this is my favorite classical song, but they only know the popular bits."

(16:34) David: Oh, vicious.

(16:35) Jessie: Wow. Wow.

(16:38) David: He should talk to Doug Ball.

(16:40) Jessie: Oh, is he into classical music?

(16:42) David: I mean, he's a composer. It also- yeah just that's pretty much all he listens to. I remember we were talking one day because you know we bond over conlanging and sports. Right.

(16:51) Jessie: Yes. And football.

(16:54) David: Yes, and music to an extent, but like I think at one point in time I was trying to-- it was, it was a Sonata Arctica song. I was like, "You gotta check out this song. It changes keys like three times. And it's so weird." And anyway, we're talking and like, "Oh yeah, I don't listen to music with lyrics." Like, like, that was just tawdry.

(17:21) Jessie: Why would you do that? Yeah, that's amazing.

(17:24) David: I would actually like to talk to Will about classical music, too, because I- I'm not, like, you know, a poetaster, when it comes to classical music, but I haven't got the extensive like, you know, knowledge of it like somebody like Doug does or like somebody like I do about something like metal

(17:41) Jessie: Right.

(17:41) David: And so I have my preferences and tastes and they're specific, like- like Tchaikovsky's one of my all time favorites. But the way that I talk about it is very unsophisticated and it was kind of fun. So like I refer to the second movement of Beethoven's Ninth as the shark attack.

(17:58) Jessie: Nice.

(17:59) David: because that's what it just feels like to me and it, it just makes more sense to me to call it the shark attack movement. And the- my favorite classical piece, I still not quite 100% sure what it's called. Because I always mix it up with something else, because they always have the worst titles. It's like, you know, you know, Sonata for strings in keys, like that's not a title. It's ridiculous. And there's probably like a million of those. So I was at a conference in Spain called Ensecretivo, which was very interesting for a number of reasons. I got some wild stories from that. But in this one. I was going to be, I was not- I was not in a section with like- we were grouped into speaker sections.

(18:48) Jessie: Right.

(18:48) David: But one of the speakers there was a violinist, a young guy he was about our age, maybe a little younger from LA who specifically worked with, you know, at risk youth teaching them about classical music and teaching them how to play the violin and things like that, teaching them music appreciation. Anyway, so I- And we were in a taxi going to some event for this and it was me and Erin and him and I said, "Hey, my favorite classical piece. It's that one. It's with violin. It's by Tchaikovsky. And it's the one where it goes {singing}." Like, "Do you know that one?" And he's like, "Yes." And he says, "This is the exact title." Like, "That's the one!" He's like- I said, "I've always wanted to hear that one." And he said that there was actually a very good know group that performed it fairly regularly at the performing arts center near my home every year.

(19:52) Jessie: Oh, wow.

(19:53) David: I haven't gotten a chance to listen to it yet because I want to take Meridian, but we're going to get there, but I'm going to get there. Very exciting anyway. I love The Nutcracker. I love The Nutcracker. I love the Pas de Deux. I thought it was brilliant. And I thought it was even more brilliant, the way he wrote it. Okay, so get this. I don't know if Will knows this- but if he doesn't know this one you can share this with him later. The Pas de Deux [GARBLED {bad video connection}] in the Nutcracker. It's the one that goes {singing}. That- are you familiar

(20:25) Jessie: Well I, I will say yes, I know that I know it and he knows it because Chris loves The Nutcracker. And so for Christmas this year, his Christmas gift from Will is he learned Pas de Deux on the cello and played it for him.

(20:40) David: Oh my god. OK, so that's wonderful. All right. Does he know the story about how it was written?

(20:45) Jessie: I have no idea.

(20:46) David: Okay, so then ask him about asked him if he knows how it was written. If it's not, you can- you can lay this one on him. It was a dare. It was written on a dare. Somebody dared Tchaikovsky and said, I bet you can't make a popular song that uses the major scale with all the notes in order as the main theme. And Tchaikovsky said "I will accept it, if I can do it in either order, either ascending or descending." And the guy said "fine." And then he created Pas de Deux because that piece, it's the major scale backwards. {singing}

(21:23) Jessie: Wow.

(21:25) David: That's it.

(21:26) Jessie: That's amazing.

(21:27) David: Ah, blew me away. Anyway, so that's, I would love to actually, I'd actually love to hear him perform it if he ever recorded it.

(21:37) Jessie: I will have to see if he- if he will be willing to do so. That would be cool. Okay, so we

(21:45) David: Yeah, sorry. 

(21:46) Jessie: talked about music. It is really good, you know, I actually find it really interesting because when I was younger, I couldn't work without background noise. Like it would actually if it were totally silent. It was like my brain couldn't concentrate. So like I used to have to turn on you know like the TV in the background or music in the background. Now that I'm older, it's not that I- you don't-- can't work with music, because I do often work with music or whatever in the background. But I find that there are times I'm so engrossed in my work that I didn't realize the music stopped playing like two hours before. And so, like, it's really interesting to me that- Now, whenever I get in my zone, like some- I'm like so oblivious to what's going on outside me that I don't even have anything on-- it's just silent, it's me working

(22:39) David: Nice. Right. I am impressed. Let me lay this one on you before we move on, just real quick. You know Kate Chopin, the author. Are you familiar? She wrote The Awakening. That was her big novel. Yeah, apparently when she wrote what she would do was she would like literally just make dinner for her children and husband and then right after dinner in the parlor, just on a side table by hand, while all of her children were still around and her husband was still there and they would be talking to her and asking things or whatever. She would just sit down and write like right there.

(23:16) Jessie: Nice.

(23:19) David: That's God Tier. I can't imagine

(23:21) Jessie: I wish, I wish I could do that. Um, so I was actually planning on taking this discussion another way, but now I'm liking this inspiration route and I'm going to save what I had actually planned as my questions- my list of questions. I'm going to save that for our next podcast episode and instead go on a tangent here. Because why not, why not? Okay, so music inspires you. Excellent. I also need to know this was a random question I had written down, and I feel like this is something that we just have to discuss so randomly switching gears for just one moment. Do you have a favorite word

(24:09) David: Um, you mean like in a language or like in anything?

(24:13) Jessie: Anything. Favorite word

(24:15) David: I don't- I have least favorite words. I know we've talked about that. Right.

(24:19) Jessie: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

(24:20) David: Yeah.

(24:21) Jessie: But no favorite words.

(24:24) David: Really, to be honest I there are words that I like for intellectual reasons. For example, I love looking at the word for butterfly in every language because it's always interesting. It's never boring. And so I just find that really cool looking at whatever the word for butterfly is in whatever language. I mean, it's just really cool. 

(24:44) Jessie: What's it going to be in a rabbit language? I can't wait to talk about butterflies now.

(24:47) David: It is a fair question. And you know it's it's funny the way I've conceived this world, right. So we just have the first, you know, five species. Right.

(24:55) Jessie: Right, but

(24:56) David: Of course, that stuff is going to get out and you take others. So there could be a Butterfly. Butterfly people

(25:03) Jessie: Oh my gosh, I- we have to. We have to. That's going to be a sixth language. I just have too.

(25:11) David: So do you have a favorite word?

(25:13) David: Oh, sorry. Go.

(25:15) Jessie: Well, and this was interesting because one of my students, my past students was texting me the other day and I had actually come across a word that I didn't know existed in English: breviloquent. And it means to be concise, right from "brevis" short or- yeah, short. And then "loquent" from that speaking kind of Latin root, and it was just like, it's just so pretty. Now if you look it up in the dictionary. I don't think the connotation is all that great, because I think it means more on the terse side of being concise. But it just--breviloquent. So anyway, she texts me, she's like she's in love with the word, and she has now brought breviloquence to life and we're, we've just decided we're going to make it positive because it's beautiful. And she had said her favorite word was serendipity. And it had been her favorite word for a very long time. But now, breviloquence is like coming up there for it and it made me wonder, because so many of my students because I deal with, you know, students who think about language, a lot do have like particular words that they just super love. And it made me curious from a conlanger point of view, because there are definitely English words I love. But I also know that there are certain things when it comes to conlanging that like- features I get stuck on because I like them so much, or, you know, like- this has to have a word for this because I like it- like a butterfly. Have to have a word for it because I like them. And I just think that's kind of interesting to see like how having favorite patterns or features and languages could end up crossing over into languages.

(26:58) David: So I'm going to say two things. Number one.

(27:02) Jessie: I'm counting them.

(27:04) David: Number one is I'm going to ruin the word breviloquence.

(27:09) Jessie: No you're not. No. Nope.

(27:16) David: Having problems with low T? Try Breviloquence. Ask your doctor.

(27:29) Jessie: Why would you... why?

(27:32) David: So sorry. It's just what you said breviloquent, I'm like, oh my god, that that fits the pattern for these new pharmaceuticals.

(27:43) Jessie: But it's breviloquent, and it's beautiful and you can't- you can't take the beauty away from breviloquent.

(27:51) David: And the worst part is, it probably would be spelled B-R-A-V-O-L-O-Q-U-I-N-T-Z. Bravoloquintz.

(28:03) Jessie: With maybe like I feel like there has to be a Y at the front, too.

(28:10) David: You're right. 

(28:11) Jessie: Like it's- we've got to have the Y, first and foremost,

(28:15) David: After the B- after the B. Byravoloquintz. 

(28:17) Jessie: Yes, yes. Yeah.

(28:19) David: You're right. Wow.

(28:21) Jessie: Um, but no, thank you. It is not- It does not ruin it. I thought you're gonna like really ruin it for me. For real. Like you knew how, you know, like the connotation angle of ruining such a pretty word anyway.

(28:37) David: Oh, yeah. It was, it was- It's a disgusting story. It was named after Harry Breviloquent and he was just such an awful, man.

(28:45) Jessie: And I know you're, I know you're lying about that because I have already researched its origins. P.S. Have you ever researched the origins of meniscus. Yeah. It is from the Greek diminutive of moon. And so it means little moon--the crescent, which is why-- And in case anyone's listening, going, "Meniscus. I know I've heard that before. But who the heck talks about menisci?" Does that- is the plural meniscuses? It's like that- that curve shape that a water droplet has at the top of it that's considered the meniscus, where like the water meets the air. It's that like edge of water, if you will.

(29:25) David: Yeah, I mean, sports fans hear the word a lot in the context of meniscus tear

(29:32) Jessie: Because it's also a ligament. So I was not thinking or not a ligament, but something cartilage or something in the joint something

(29:40) David: I honestly don't know. Like, it's the type of thing where it's like, I absolutely know the name of it, like we know lots of those things as sports fans because- in fact, I bet a sports fan is more likely to be able to tell you how long a player will be out with a meniscus tear than to tell you what the hell it is.

(30:01) Jessie: Well, and okay, so let's talk. Okay, let's- You never got to your number two, but moving forward.

(30:07) David: We'll come back.

(30:09) Jessie: This is also another thing that natural languages do that I always, it's so hard to emulate in a conlang because you're sort of forcing it because you have to be forcing it because you're like actually creating it. But like in natural languages. How did we get from little moon to meniscus at the edge of the water to cartilage, whatever it is in the joint and like that journey it goes on, where it's like one word sort of shifting shape and meaning. It just blows my mind. Sort of like the other day when I was like wait pith from the fruit. The orange pith. And pithy, to be pithy. It's the same source but like who thought one day, "Oh, if I described you as pithy that means you have a lot of pith, like in the orange?" Like, who did that first? Anyway, do you not just get lost in words?

(31:06) David: It's, it's, it is a daunting and not not not humiliating. But I guess what's, what's the word. It's an intimidating prospect being a conlanger. Because you look at these older words and where they came from and realize that somebody with a lot-- with access to a lot less knowledge than you did came up with this word for this reason. It's just like, how- how? Like, we can come up with a bunch of words for stuff now for the stuff we don't know. Look it up on Wikipedia and come up with them. But it's like I can only imagine that just one day you know you know Greekramos comes to his friend Egramos and says, "Hey, my father died," and Egramos is all like, "Hey, can I see that body? I'm going to like cut it up and look at the stuff inside it and then give it names." Oh, that looks like a little moon thing. Let's do it. "You getting this- you getting this, Greekamos?" "Yeah, I'm writing it down."

(32:09) Jessie: And I know that's exactly how it happened. I'm sure

(32:12) David: I'm sure

(32:13) Jessie: But that is- that is one thing. Whenever we start- because obviously like I think somebody had said something about coming up with a word for heart and you had stopped and said- in our rabbit language, there was that connection- and you had said, "But wait, do they, was there a surgeon. Do they know what's inside?" And that is such a big thing that we take for granted, is, you know, all these words that we have for technical things because we know they exist and then trying to think of, if I had discovered that, what would I have named it? And it probably would have been something like what you see in a pharmaceutical commercial. I would have been like every one of my favorite letters is going into this word. And it will be pronounced the way I want it to be pronounced because, doggone it, I found it.

(33:05) David: I imagine it would be a little different with animals because it'd be like, you know, they're just hopping along and said like, "Oh dang. Bob's getting eat up. Yeah. Yes. That's a shame. What do you think that is?"

(33:20) Jessie: You know, and, and that is very true, but then, do they make the connection of seeing carnage potentially gnawing on the carnage if they have some hare blood in them. And do they make that connection then to this may be what this does inside my body? You would just name it as an object because you wouldn't know necessarily what it did. And so, yeah, you would look for commonalities between things you already know, but like, then that means we're gonna have to research what the organs look like because what does a rabbit heart look like, I don't know.

(33:58) David: Probably going to be named based on their level of chewiness.

(34:03) Jessie: Oh, I do not want to know. Well, I'm gonna be, uh

(34:08) David: Wow, that wolf is really chewing on that thing.

(34:10) Jessie: I'm going to be very ghosty that day. I don't want to know! I'll come back when we're done with these poor animals. Oh my gosh. Okay, so let's go back. That was number one.

(34:28) David: Oh, yeah. So number two was- I mean, it was kind of similar to what I- what I- what I brought up, but it is... This is another one of my conlanger worries. So I mean, the one conlanger worry is that I don't have, I don't have enough knowledge of what it would be like to explore the world at a time when we had a lot less technology. Right, so I'm not sure if I'm sensibly coining words in a way that would be realistic. But another one is the--this is more of a top level concern--is that you don't recognize the patterns that you fall into as a language creator. I'm often asked if there are, you know, like I have a signature of the things I often do I'm said like, well, it's not really a question I'm supposed to answer. It's a question that somebody who studies my stuff is supposed to answer. And frankly, I don't want to see what they answer. Is- because I'll probably be embarrassed, be like, Oh, I did that in every language. Wow.

(35:27) Jessie: And then you'll like, avoid it for every language thereafter. Or- or you defiantly embrace it like I do with my love of what music I do love. Defiantly embrace it and say, that's me. That's what you gotta do and say, yes, I do have that sound in every language. I do have a word like that in every language. Why? Because I like it.

(35:52) David: Or, or it's like even better. You just create a little private language on your own, where you do all the things you never do. And it's like, Oh, you're doing that, again, it's like yeah well I just did, you know, the opposite of that.

(36:04) Jessie: I just did this other thing, obviously you don't know all my work.

(36:07) David: Yeah, it's, it's the opposite happened all the time in {David does an un-transcribable word here to make it impossible for a good transcript} You just don't know about it.

(36:15) Jessie: Did you do that word on purpose because you know I'm trying to get a recording with the transcript of this and you're waiting to see what happens with that word? Is- are you are you doing this to me on purpose.

(36:26) David: I forgot. And we're already spelling breviloquent and everything. Do you think it's got breviloquent loaded up there?

(36:32) Jessie: It'll be really interesting to see what it does. And how many things I have to fix.

(36:40) David: And menisci. You said mensisci. What do you think it's going to do with menisci?

(36:45) Jessie: I think it's going to do men in sky. Alright, three words, it's-

(36:50) David: Pretty much the same thing.

(36:52) Jessie: Because this is the same transcription software, by the way, that I sent you the picture. It was a sentence that was supposed to say "it does indeed pass" but it came out as "doesn't he pass" and it was very confusing when you're trying to read and understand

(37:13) David: I mean it's it's honestly it's- it's a- it's a pretty misogynistic algorithm. Let's just admit that, because how- How did it change your name?

(37:22) Jessie: It changed it to the spelling that you would typically associate with them a male Jesse. J-E-S-S-E. Yes

(37:28) David: That's right. It looked at it and said somebody who's getting promoted a full professor can't be female.

(37:35) Jessie: But didn't you used to always spell my name that way, David?

(37:38) David: Yeah maliciously

(37:44) Jessie: That was back when we were bitter enemies-

(37:47) David: When we were bitter enemies and only I knew it

(37:53) Jessie: Because I was fangirling to hard.

(37:58) David: I'm so embarrassed. The only way- the only way to live out- to live through the shame of it is to endlessly mock myself about it for the rest of my life. It's fine.

(38:09) Jessie: OK, so now that people listening along may be confused. Do you want to share some of that or let that be a, just know that at one point, there was enemy-ship.

(38:22) David: But only on one half. Yeah, it was- it was wild. I had a hate board. Your pictures were all over it.

(38:31) Jessie: And like, please tell me there was a dartboard

(38:33) David: Yeah, and it was just the type of thing where, you know, it's a very normal thing where it's like right before I go to sleep, I stare at your photo and just hate it for five minutes and then I go to sleep and I wake up in the morning I do the same thing, right, when I wake up that I can brush my teeth and I go about my day, you know,

(38:48) Jessie: I mean that's sometimes that's the best way to start the day. Who needs positivity and mindfulness and meditation, when you, when you've got vengeance?

(39:00) David: The best part of waking up is vengeance in your cup.

(39:05) Jessie: I was just, it was just singing the Folger song. I'm glad that you went that direction.

(39:09) David: Yes, but I'll give- I'll give the short version. Essentially, there was a time when I was tremendously jealous of Jessie. Because here she was teaching a conlang class at a university, something that was like my dream and I was just disgusted, especially because there was- there had been a trend. This is a trend of linguists who'd never conlanged before teaching conlang classes. It turns out, Jessie was not one of those, but I didn't know that at the time. I made some key assumptions there. There may be a photo with us, that shows me expressing some tremendous negative energy.

(39:58) Jessie: I was wondering if you caught that.

(40:00) David: Yeah. Did you see how I'm leaning away from you.

(40:03) David: Yes, it's

(40:05) Jessie: And a fake smile all over your face, like, "Do I have to stand here?"

(40:09) David: Oh my god.

(40:10) Jessie: Our first picture together, everyone.

(40:13) David: Of all things, this is, this is kind of a weird coincidence but my grandfather went late in life and got his, his degree in not clinical psychiatry, but psychology and he's- and he's worked as a psychologist since then. He has a lot of books on psychology and he had a big library and so periodically, I'd want to borrow some of his books. And one of the books I borrowed was a part of a series, which, for whatever reason, they were like introductory psychology topics that had like almost cartoonish covers. So it's like almost like they were being marketed to kids, but they were not kids books, they were, right, very- Anyway, one of these books was about the psychology of photographs. Oh, and- and I read it and I learned a lot about how to analyze photographs and the dynamics between people based on their expression and their stance and how far or how close they're standing to one another. Right, so like I've just kind of carried that knowledge, along with me for years. Like I read that as a teenager. And so it's like you showed me that photo. Our first photo together. I'm looking at it, and I'm like, oh god, that is so humiliating. But I was like, but surely, nobody else will notice, who else has read this book, who knows about the psychology of photographs?

(41:33) Jessie: Well, now a lot of people do, because, you know, all of our patrons. Our growing base now knows. And I think I'm gonna have to share that photo as one of the resources.

(41:46) David: You're right, it's gonna have to go up with this podcast.

(41:50) Jessie: Just say- This is the epic photo. Oh, more recent photos were much more positive.

(41:58) David: Yeah yeah like actually we should put up that other one that one that I showed you for- So you could see the change

(42:09) Jessie: It's amazing what friendship does.

(42:12) David: Yeah.

(42:13) Jessie: Oh that is great and when, when you all do see the photo, you're going to see me with a bunch of people-- bunch. There's four other people with the same shirt on. And those were my students from-- well, some of my students from the conlang class that David was mentioning- from one particular semester that would have been the- the 2013 semester. Whenever I first met David at the Language Creation Conference. And so my, I had a handful of students who are able to go to Austin. So it was like a five, five and a half hour drive for us. So I had a handful of students who were able to go and we had a class t shirt. And so we all decided that day, like we would show up in our class t shirt and it was very exciting. And David was super stoked to meet me and it's like on his bucket list what I need to do.

(43:01) David: Oh, man. Good. Did you drive all that way.

(43:07) Jessie: Yeah yeah

(43:09) David: I guess that kind of makes sense because it's like, do you want to drive five hours to a place or two hours to an airport

(43:15) Jessie: And then wait for two hours to get on your plane.

(43:20) David: Yeah, yeah, I'd still take the plane but yeah

(43:23) Jessie: But, but not only that but it costs more, you just drive

(43:28) David: Yeah, I guess. Did you did you come with with all of your students? Were you all in the same car? Did you caravan?

(43:35) Jessie: No. So they actually all came sort of separately. Some of them went together, but a lot of them have friends in the Austin area. So they wanted to go stay with their friends and actually extend all weekend and you know like, yeah, into an event. One of my students needed a ride to Austin. So I had driven him up to Austin. But then he hooked up with the other students. And you know went their direction. So yeah, it was we were all sort of migrating west.

(44:10) David: Really quickly, you know what I would have done, I would have had my cool, awesome pilot husband fly me from Nacogdoches to Austin.

(44:21) Jessie: Okay, so that does. I know it sounds cool, people listening. But it actually costs more money to fly than you may think. Because you have to- We don't own a plane. So like you got to pay the hourly rate on a plane which is not cheap. And then you gotta tie down and you've got to pay to tie down at an airport. Then I also have to get their rental car to be able to leave the airport because once I'm there I don't have a car.

(44:47) David: And we did then- Uber didn't exist at that time.

(44:50) Jessie: Right. And so, you know, like it's-it sounds, "Oh, why don't you just fly?" But unless you actually own the plane and have people at the other end, it's not always easier. And so, yeah, no, I just drove

(45:05) David: I never said it would be easy. I only said it would be worth it.

(45:09) Jessie: I okay so I actually, I can't, I maybe it's just I need to be in them more. I get plane sick. I don't get carsick. I get little plane sick- like big planes don't bother me, but little planes with the motions in the air.... I- I cannot be in one for more than I think the longest I've made it as a little over an hour. And I was like, I'm ready to be on the ground again.

(45:35) David: 100% opposite for me. I hate, I hate being in a car. I hate, hate being in a car.

(45:41) Jessie: Well then, I'm glad every time you visit I get to take you on a two and a half hour drive to the airport

(45:47) David: Well, that's the thing, though. I mean, being being in the car with somebody else, especially somebody you like to be in the car with that makes it- that makes it all the better. Yeah, yeah.

(45:59) Jessie: Oh, let's- Okay, so we've just devolved into story hour. Let's tell a little story about what happens when you drive to the airport in East Texas, middle of nowhere and a logging truck has overturned on the interstate shutting down the entire interstate for both directions. Let's talk about the two and a half hour trip that turned into, well, it took me almost four hours to get you there, which meant you also missed your flight because it took so long to get there that our two hour window for the flight was gone. And so you ended up- because you were leaving from Houston to go to another school in Texas. Yeah, and I think you ended up having to drive that whole way this- Or take a taxi or something, which meant you were in the car all freaking day

(46:55) David: Oh, yeah. So this is, this is what I did. And I'm still so mad about this. So I actually did arrive at the airport before my flight was going to take off. And this was a small flight. Right. So this is a flight from Houston to Victoria, Texas. Which it's like I can honestly understand if there are people in Texas who've never heard of Victoria, Texas. It's- it's a small small place. So it was a small airplane and there was only like two flights, you know, you know, twice a day. That was it. Commuter flights. Anyway, I get there and you know I'm running my ass off. And it's 15 minutes before the flight leaves and it's like I'm here. And then they're like, oh no, we've already closed the door. Like, I can literally look out the window and see the plane-- it's sitting there. They actually ended up leaving five minutes late, but I'm like, Please, I'm right here. Can I just get on the plane like there's no other plane. And they're like, Oh, I'm sorry. And then at one point in time, the guy just walks away like as I'm talking to him like he's just done with me. So he just walks away walks to the back, and I was it. There was nobody else there. There was nobody at the counter. So I'm like, what the hell am I going to do? So it's like I got on the phone with somebody over in Victoria, explained the situation to them. And I explained to them the logging truck. Good lord. And of all things like because you know it was it was a bit of a drive. There were like, you know, I was like, it's going to be very expensive to take a taxi, the whole way. And so somebody there out of the kindness of her heart said, Okay, this is what we'll do. There is this spot that is halfway between. I'll drive there right now. You take a taxi there right now and then we'll, we'll switch and split the difference. So I showed up late and there was a big house party like the dean's house or something like most of the food had been eaten. Because I was like, I think I was like two and a half, three hours late. Many people had left. No, you know, I gave my talk the next day, and everything. It was actually very interesting because I think I told you that they had a horseshoe museum there.

(49:07) Jessie: Yes, you did

(49:08) David: Sorry not horseshoe, not horseshoe. Branding. Branding iron. Branding iron. Right. In addition to the crazy story about the, the Spanish ship that was sunk there. And the people that want to Canada anyway, but yeah man that- That sucked. Because it was- it was going to be so perfect, because there's going to be like, I'm already going to be in Texas. Anyway, I can just do this really quick and really easy. And then this, this guy in this logging truck and I'm pretty sure this is actually what happened. He just says to the guy on the radio says, "Hey, hey. Bet you can't tip over your logs." "And I'll show you."

(49:45) Jessie: "Show you how to tip these over." Yeah. So, and I don't even know if I told you about my return trip from dropping you off because there's really, there's no other way to really get to the airport, except on that interstate. And so even all the little back roads dump back out on the interstate. So there's really not a good way to avoid it. So I was stuck again in a line on the way back. While we're in a line not moving- mind you, or if we do move. It's like five miles an hour for 20 feet and then you stop. The person behind me freakin rear ended me

(50:26) David: What

(50:27) Jessie: Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, we're in a stopped line of traffic. And you just slam on your gas. So, yeah, so I had to get my car fixed after that because I mean- like rear ended me. It was in- of course like nobody can make it to the accident site so thankfully they were honest people and showed me their insurance information and when insurance called, they were like, yeah, that happened. And so it was all okay but it was the longest day because that normally it would be a five hour round trip. And I was in the car for over 10 hours that day. It's just like this is I'm so done. But it did mean that the next time I drove you to the airport, I think we left like eight hours early because, so if we get stuck on the interstate.

(51:23) David: So for another conlang Truman State connection. I had a kind of little accident that involved Doug Ball. I still feel really bad about this, but the previous time that I had driven somebody to the airport, it was Erin and she was going up to visit her family and I get on- and I started driving on our freeway and I realize after about 20 minutes- because we were leaving late that I had gotten on the 405 North to go to LAX, but her flight left from Orange County which required me to take the 405 South

(51:58) Jessie: Oh no

(51:59) David: Already late, I drove 20 minutes in the wrong direction. And so it's like I get off and you know I hurry back the other way. But, indeed. She missed her flight and she was stuck at the airport for like an hour and a half before she can take the next one. So fast forward to the LSA that was an Anaheim. Doug Ball was staying with us because he was, he was at the LSA. And it just so happened that that was NFL playoff weekend. And so it was like, cool. We'll get to watch some games and we were watching a game between the Seahawks and the Cowboys. And it's about like Doug's leaving from Orange County. So this is an airport. That's like 20 minutes from my house. Maybe usually like 15 minutes. And it's about three and a half hours until his flight takes off and we're in the middle of the game and I say, "Hey, Doug, you know what? We should really leave." And he's like, "Why?" I was like, "I just want to make sure you get there own time. The last time I took someone to the airport it was Erin and she missed her flight. It was a disaster." And like all right so he kind of like begrudgingly left. Even though we're in the middle of watching this game we listened to the rest of it. As we were driving there. And it just so happened. It was a rather famous or at least infamous game because, for whatever reason, I guess the holder for the Cowboys was out. And so, Tony Romo their quarterback was the holder. And they just had to kick a very a chippy field goal to either tie it or win it in the last second, and Tony Romo was the holder. And the long snapper gives it back to him and Tony Romo fumbles the hold. The kick doesn't go off. The Cowboys lose--an absolute shocker. And we had a listen to it on the radio, as we were pulling into the airport. Anyway, turned out I got there so early and that Doug felt-- or the people there felt so sorry for Doug, that they let them take it earlier flight.

(54:03) Jessie: Airport. Always. Always fun when you have to go to the airport. So, I think, I think we've been inspired today. Like I said, I had a whole plan. But plans, you know, go awry and for people still listening, thank you for listening, even through any of the potential hiccups, because I know it's paused, even a couple more times. But I just let it happen. That's technology and that's life. And so thank you for making it to the end. We will wrap up here and join you again in a month to talk about, you know, the rest of what I had written down and it will be, yeah.

(54:47) David: I can't wait. I can't wait.

(54:50) Jessie: Out of the-- I'm guessing out of the five questions I have written down our next one will get through half of one. Not even a whole one. I love when I go in over prepared and end up going, "Wait." Oh fun side story. Okay, sorry, this is one more devolving side story. So, but it has to do with being prepared and a level of being prepared. So my very first time ever teaching. It was the fall of 2005 and I was a grad student at Boulder and I was supposed to be a teaching assistant that fall for like one of the big classes. And so I was just going to be in charge of the recitations right so only those little meetings, someone else was teaching the class. Two weeks before the semester begins, this person who was scheduled- another grad student was scheduled to teach their English grammar class and like at the last minute had a different job offer. And so they were like, "Well, I'm going to take this because it pays more money" and it totally made sense. But that meant they needed someone to cover this class. And so they asked me to do it. And I had never taught a class before. Never.

(56:00) David: Wow. 

(56:02) Jessie: like never been in charge of a class- you know, I'd given presentations before. I had done, things like that. But I had never been in charge of a class. So I had a lot of support, you know, like I had colleagues give me syllabi and materials. The books were already chosen so like I had all of those elements in place. Except, here's the thing. Like going in day one. You like you need more information than you may think to teach a 50-minute class. So I had typed up my notes. I had like everything I wanted to say. I have pages and pages of notes and I'm thinking, Okay, I've got everything planned out. I've got my lecture. I get in. I'm going through, got all my information, going through page after page giving examples. Nobody stopping me so I keep going and then I stop. I get to the end of my notes. I look up at the clock. We're 12 minutes into class and I have nothing more to say. So, I literally just look around. "Does anyone have any questions?" No one raises their hand. So I said, "Well, then I'll see you next time." Because I had no idea what to do for 38 minutes. It was great. I figured it out after a while, and I figured out how to appropriately plan out my time and now I usually go way long and I don't realize we're past the time. But yeah, that was my first day just- That, that kind of blew me away. I was not expecting to have a problem with time management in that way. The little things you don't think about if you've never taught before. And with that, with that we do need to bid adieu and go on. And so, any final notes.

(57:58) David: I need to start thinking of final notes in advance.

(58:01) Jessie: Anything pithy to offer in a breviloquent manner?

(58:09) David: Honestly though I, I guess the only thing I could say is, get ready for episode four, when we do episode three for real.

(58:22) Jessie: Yes. It'll be like 3A, 3B, 3C by the time we get to 3W we'll just give up and say, "Yeah, I think that was, that was a wrap."

(58:34) David: A thousand and one podcasts.

(58:36) Jessie: Yes, but thank you all for being here and being wonderful patrons and we will see you soon on our live stream. Bye!